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CANCELLED
2300 Douglas Street
Uses: rental, commercial
Address: 2300-2312 Douglas Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Urban core
Storeys: 6
2300 Douglas Street was a proposal to build a six-storey, mixed-use commercial and purpose-built rental develo... (view full profile)
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[Burnside-Gorge] 2300 Douglas Street (Silver Arrow Cars) | Rentals, office, auto dealership | 6-storeys | Cancelled


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81 replies to this topic

#61 Mike K.

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 09:09 AM

Oh yeah, they can be located together with the offices. I should supplant the above with commercial/light industrial.


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#62 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:58 PM

why does light industrial and warehouses have to be so close to downtown? that’s not where most of the population lives or where it’s growing.

#63 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:00 PM

food retailers and large stores like Walmart - the largest movers of goods in the city - require no warehousing locally. who does?

#64 G-Man

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:22 AM

^ I agree. People always are saying this land is valuable as it is. If that were true the use would have been maximised but walk around this area and it is empty lots and parking lots. Move this out to Sidney or Langford.
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#65 Mike K.

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:25 AM

food retailers and large stores like Walmart - the largest movers of goods in the city - require no warehousing locally. who does?

 

Sure they do. They just happen to consider a much, much larger area as 'local.' Walmart is building a massive warehouse on the mainland for their southwest BC stores. They can store all of their stuff there as opposed to at each store.

 

99% of businesses big or small don't have the same luxury Walmart does and require constant deliveries.


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#66 Mike K.

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:29 AM

^ I agree. People always are saying this land is valuable as it is. If that were true the use would have been maximised but walk around this area and it is empty lots and parking lots. Move this out to Sidney or Langford.

 

Much of that land is owned by old money that has no desire to sell or redevelop. The land is extremely valuable for light industrial and small warehousing, in addition to offices/commercial space. If a project with light industrial space or warehousing were proposed anywhere in that area it would sell out/lease out immediately.

 

Look at where the investment is currently going. Phillips now controls its entire block with light industrial activities, commercial activities and warehousing. The only residential is a small pocket of affordable apartments with retail at grade. Le Fevre's power house is all commercial, too.


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#67 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:33 AM

why does light industrial and warehouses have to be so close to downtown? that’s not where most of the population lives or where it’s growing.

Actually, the City of Victoria and its downtown are growing, they're just not growing *as fast* as some other communities. A majority of the region's population resides in the four core municipalities (Saanich, Victoria, Esquimalt, and Oak Bay); only Oak Bay's population is declining. 



#68 Bernard

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 08:32 AM

Warehousing has been a major problem for many businesses in Victoria.  Thrifty's had to warehouse in the lower mainland till it got a space to build on the airport lands (which are outside of the planning jurisdiction of any municipality)

 

The point of zoning is not only to create areas of like usages but also to keep the land prices lower for things like light industrial.   This aspect does not work if councils are willing to allow industrial lands to rezoned.



#69 Jackerbie

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 08:33 AM

Oh yeah, they can be located together with the offices. I should supplant the above with commercial/light industrial.

 

This is what we're seeing on the mainland as older industrial areas close to the urban cores redevelop: one or two-storey industrial units with offices built above.


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#70 Bernard

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:00 AM

This is what we're seeing on the mainland as older industrial areas close to the urban cores redevelop: one or two-storey industrial units with offices built above.

 

Losing industrial land has become a major problem in Vancouver as the False Creek industrial lands have been rezoned to other uses.   Businesses servicing the downtown core used to be located a 15 minute drive away, now they are are an hour or more away.   It has raised the cost of doing business in Downtown Vancouver and increased truck traffic throughout the city.



#71 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:00 AM

 

People always are saying this land is valuable as it is. If that were true the use would have been maximised but walk around this area and it is empty lots and parking lots...

 

You just don't understand. People are still holding out hope for Victoria's industrial renaissance. Everybody wants dirty, noisy industrial operations to return to the heart of the city, with big trucks constantly coming and going right through the wee hours. The fact that this longing for urban industrial revival also works very nicely as a ploy for blocking small residential developments is just a happy coincidence.


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#72 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:56 AM

Well, there *is* a major industrial expansion planned for the near future:  Point Hope Shipyards is planning a significant upgrade to their Vic West facility and it will likely add a substantial number of permanent positions.  In recent years we have seen an increase of other industrial activity in the city via the expansion of brewpubs but also via the growth of small manufacturers like Fawcett Mattress.  I definitely hope that there will always be a place in Victoria for these types of businesses ...

 

You just don't understand. People are still holding out hope for Victoria's industrial renaissance. Everybody wants dirty, noisy industrial operations to return to the heart of the city, with big trucks constantly coming and going right through the wee hours. The fact that this longing for urban industrial revival also works very nicely as a ploy for blocking small residential developments is just a happy coincidence.



#73 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:36 AM

In 2020 Victoria desperately needs more industrial operations in the downtown/harbour area. In 1971 Victoria desperately needed to evict industrial operations from the downtown/harbour area.


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#74 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 12:47 PM

Methinks the lesson in so many of these issues is this: Victoria is a real city, it's not a one-trick pony, there are myriad things going on. Efforts to clamp down on the variety/complexity by trying to impose artificial uniformity or monotony (or whatever term we want to use) have never worked because they can't work. The variety in the urban mix is genuine and complex. It always was and it always will be so. The goal today shouldn't be to favour one thing or one use to the exclusion of another. The goal should be to keep it all working together as well as possible. I'd even say the intimate mix of residential uses, commercial uses, industrial uses, tourism/hospitality uses, etc. is a key aspect of Victoria's character.


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#75 Bernard

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 03:52 PM

Which means you need a reasonable amount of light industrial near the centre of the city to service all the office buildings, hotels and malls for a myriad of things.   As an example. hotels used to get their laundry done near downtown, now it all has to be trucked out to Langford and back.



#76 Nparker

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 03:59 PM

...As an example. hotels used to get their laundry done near downtown, now it all has to be trucked out to Langford and back.

Then again...https://www.canadian...ritish Columbia



#77 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:43 PM

 

Which means you need a reasonable amount of light industrial near the centre of the city to service all the office buildings, hotels and malls for a myriad of things.

 

For sure, but I'm saying you don't need to reserve an exclusive district for such uses. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing bet, as demonstrated by the cruise ships, floatplanes, shipyard, cement plants, etc. and the commercial/residential development near Fisherman's Wharf, at Dockside Green, and at the Selkirk waterfront.

 

In that 1971 article the assumption was that you needed to make a hard choice between residential, industrial, or green space. A bit later on we had the original Songhees vision, which assumed that residential could co-exist with light industry and commercial operations. Later still we revised the Songhees vision, and even the marina itself (a central piece of the plan from day one) was deemed to be inappropriate. Now the marina is finally there and we have yet more proof that co-existence works. But here we are in 2020 making the assumption yet again that residential development must be restricted because it can't possibly co-exist with commercial/industrial operations.

 

It seems to be yet another one of those "we'll never learn" things, despite what we can see with our own eyes. Every day we revisit the issue from scratch and decide all over again what's possible and what's not possible. But meanwhile James Bay has been there all along, with port and marina facilities, industry, government offices, hotels & motels, parks and green space, and thousands of residents (in SFDs, lowrise apartments, and highrise buildings) all co-existing within the same compact neighbourhood for many decades.



#78 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:50 PM

 

...meanwhile James Bay has been there all along, with port and marina facilities, industry, government offices, hotels & motels, parks and green space, and thousands of residents (in SFDs, lowrise apartments, and highrise buildings) all co-existing within the same compact neighbourhood for many decades.

 

But aastra! Don't you know that James Bay is an unlivable hell on earth because of [insert your favourite land-use bogeyman here]?*

 

*it's actually not an unlivable hell on earth, which is why people like it



#79 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:58 PM

 

In that 1971 article the assumption was that you needed to make a hard choice between residential, industrial, or green space.

 

North American "urban renewal" back then was mainly about tidying things up and making everything more streamlined and generic, and ultimately stripping away a city's unique flavour.



#80 aastra

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:27 PM

Speaking of industry co-existing with residential, check out this story from 1952 (the street is in Saanich, not Victoria):

 

 

Daily Colonist
August 12, 1952

Council Wrangles on Light Industry

A heated argument between councillors and a delegation was fought out several separate times when the delegation protested the granting of a temporary permit for a light industry to be operating in a residential zone.

Council had granted a permit to Herman Vanderbyl, Culduthel Avenue, to use a dwelling to manufacture kitchen sinks.

Reeve Joseph Casey said, "In Saanich a house is no asset. We only make money on industry or vacant land. These people really have a good product and we ought to encourage them."



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