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Canada vs. Saudi Arabia


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#41 spanky123

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:17 AM

 

Indeed it is a different culture ... one where the citizens gather in large numbers in city squares to watch the The Saudi's live a brutal, tribalistic, misogynistic existence ... and the world sucks up to them for their oil.

 

There is no doubt that there are aspects of extremist ideology that those of us in the west find revolting. The thing is though that if you talk with ex-pats who have lived in SA, the UAE or other ME countries then you will get a different story. 

 

You won't find people pooping in the streets. You can leave your $3K bike in front of your office and it will be there when you come back. The are no residents with unsafe drinking water, living in the streets or unable to afford an education. 

 

The culture is different. There are many overseas though who would say that we are the ones that have the human rights problem!


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#42 Cassidy

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:23 AM

Yeah, it's amazing what the threat of having your head cut off (sometimes followed by crucifixion) for crimes as petty as theft or blasphemy, being stoned to death (adultery), or having the bottoms of your feet beat to a pulp or your hands cut off (pretty much any small crime) will do to keep the population on the straight and narrow.

 

It's easy to stop folks from crapping in the streets if you can make them fear for their lives 24/7.

 

It's also worth noting that the Saudi's also have 11 million foreign workers in 66% of all the jobs available ... while the Saudi's sit around on their duffs and do nothing constructive.

 

As for the Saudi's human rights mess vs everybody else's human rights mess, that's an equivocation designed to distract ... there are lots of human rights abusers around the world, but we're talking about the Saudi's in this thread, as the story itself is about the Saudi's.


Edited by Cassidy, 08 August 2018 - 05:49 AM.

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#43 spanky123

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:20 AM

^ Actually my friend, the thread is Canada vs SA!

 

I suspect that you have never worked or lived in the ME but I can tell you from personal experience and that of many ex-pats that I know, you are far more likely to get shot in random gun violence in Vancouver or Toronto then you are to have your head cut off by the Government in SA or the UAE.

 

Citizens are paid an "allowance" in many of the middle eastern countries. As a result, imported workers do most of the manual labour. I think that is more of a function of a guaranteed minimum income (and similar to what other countries have found during their own trials) then it is systemic laziness.

 

As I said initially, my issue is the hypocrisy, not that SA is some model state.


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#44 Rob Randall

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:25 AM

None of this makes sense to me. Just a few months ago the Saudis spent a fortune on an extensive PR campaign, with interviews, billboards, glossy magazines and other propaganda that went out of its way to portray the regime and forward and changing and the Crown Prince as the new man behind the reform.

 

Now a little bit of mild criticism from Canada (which we've been dishing out every year like clockwork) and all of a sudden the Saudis are all twisted in knots like we've never seen, so much that they're willing to wreck the lives of 16,000 of their best and brightest students which seems a dangerous long-term move for a patriarchal dictatorship.


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#45 rjag

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:36 AM

Canada isnt the problem, they are using Canada as a small player in M/E relations to send a message to their bigger partners which is theres a new boss in town and he isnt fvcking around. Better to take out and make an example of the weaker non-confrontational neighbor as a start and escalate from there until the desired outcome is achieved.

 

Whats Canada and JT going to do? Maybe send a few non-binary officials to discuss a way for Canada to apologize to the people of the region? perhaps some aid to Palestine? 



#46 spanky123

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:33 AM

None of this makes sense to me. Just a few months ago the Saudis spent a fortune on an extensive PR campaign, with interviews, billboards, glossy magazines and other propaganda that went out of its way to portray the regime and forward and changing and the Crown Prince as the new man behind the reform.

 

Now a little bit of mild criticism from Canada (which we've been dishing out every year like clockwork) and all of a sudden the Saudis are all twisted in knots like we've never seen, so much that they're willing to wreck the lives of 16,000 of their best and brightest students which seems a dangerous long-term move for a patriarchal dictatorship.

 

You have to wonder how much of this is pent up frustration with JT's ongoing support of and personal relationship with the Aga Khan who is the spiritual head of the Shia Muslims. SA is predominantly Sunni and views Iran (Shia) as their enemy.



#47 Mike K.

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:57 AM

And just to add to the social welfare situation in SA, so long as you commit to living your life in accordance with the state's religious leanings your living expenses will be paid for. It's not a bad gig for those who wish to devote themselves to their passions, their religion and their communities.


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#48 RFS

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:13 AM

^ Actually my friend, the thread is Canada vs SA!

I suspect that you have never worked or lived in the ME but I can tell you from personal experience and that of many ex-pats that I know, you are far more likely to get shot in random gun violence in Vancouver or Toronto then you are to have your head cut off by the Government in SA or the UAE.

Citizens are paid an "allowance" in many of the middle eastern countries. As a result, imported workers do most of the manual labour. I think that is more of a function of a guaranteed minimum income (and similar to what other countries have found during their own trials) then it is systemic laziness.

As I said initially, my issue is the hypocrisy, not that SA is some model state.


Life is basically fine for the saudi citizens, but there is a TON of foreign workers who are literal slaves, there is also sex trafficking, and assorted other horrors
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#49 Wayne

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:32 AM

I remember being a kid at school.  In the playground you never picked a fight with an another kid when the outcome was a lose/lose.


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#50 dasmo

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:21 PM

Sometimes you pick the fight anyway because it's right and hope you get a lucky punch. Saudi needs to step into the modern world. They are wholly in the wrong and are making fools of themselves and are further advertising their backward policies. 1000 lashes and ten years for critical words???? Once again this response is out of scale because it's simply words.  I am no SJW but we are in the righteous position and have done nothing extreme at all. If Prince Mohammed was at all a reasonable man he would have kept it a war of words for much much longer. 



#51 Rob Randall

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:53 PM

Here is a short overview that helps give some context:

 

https://www.axios.co...0dd13bd6f4.html

 

 

 

  • But as part of that plan, he’s staged a power grab and crushed dissent to minimize challenges from rival princes or from conservative circles who hate what he’s up to. This, for example, explains why Prince Mohamed sees no contradiction in allowing women to drive while also arresting the women who have campaigned for allowing women to drive. 
  • By lashing out at Canada – a country big enough to matter, but small enough not to risk any serious fallout – he is sending a signal: external criticism is now just as off-limits as internal criticism. 

"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

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#52 LeoVictoria

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

Just another reminder to Canada not to become too economically involved with countries that have capricious and irrational decision makers at the helm.

..

And yes I realize we live beside one but we don’t have much of a choice there..

#53 Hotel Mike

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:00 PM

The Aga Khan is head of the world's Ismaili muslims not Shia. Seriously. 


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Don't be so sure.:cool:

#54 Cassidy

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:34 PM

Its manufactured outrage ... The Aga Kahn was a close friend of his fathers, and JT was raised from childhood taught to call him "Uncle K."

He's a family friend close enough to JT to actually be considered family.

So JT visits him, genuinely likes him, and has every intention to maintain a life long bond with him.

Classic manufactured outrage.

 

(BTW, the Ismaili Muslims are a subset of Shia Muslims - not technically "Shia" ... but not very far off).


Edited by Cassidy, 08 August 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#55 LJ

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:35 PM

Meanwhile China has arrested potential protesters by monitoring social media chat rooms. We're good with that though.


Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#56 Mike K.

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:36 PM

Its manufactured outrage ... The Aga Kahn was a close friend of his fathers, and JT was raised from childhood taught to call him "Uncle K."
He's a family friend close enough to JT to actually be considered family.
So JT visits him, genuinely likes him, and has every intention to maintain a life long bond with him.
Classic manufactured outrage.

(BTW, the Ismaili Muslims are a subset of Shia Muslims - not technically "Shia" ... but not very far off).


Taught to call him “Uncle K?” That sounds kinda weird.

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#57 Benezet

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:56 PM

Taught to call him “Uncle K?” That sounds kinda weird.


:-) You’ve taught us to call you “Mike K”
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#58 spanky123

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:15 AM

The Aga Khan is head of the world's Ismaili muslims not Shia. Seriously. 

 

Correct. The Ismaili are a Shia offshoot. Comment still stands regarding the Sunnis vs the Shias (and their various sects).



#59 Cassidy

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:22 AM

Taught to call him “Uncle K?” That sounds kinda weird.

It's not weird at all.

Aga Kahns give up their given name and surname when they assumes the position (just like the Pope) ... effectively making his last name (as far a 5 year old kid is concerned) "Kahn".

 

So Pierre tells his son this is "Uncle K", and that's what JT grows up calling him.

 

What's "weird" about that?


Edited by Cassidy, 09 August 2018 - 05:23 AM.


#60 Mike K.

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:32 AM

What’s weird is Trudeau never had contact with Uncle K until he became party leader. 30 years of no Uncle K. Then Uncle K, a registered federal lobbyist, suddenly finds his way to Trudeau and the two become great, great friends.

How much money has Canada pledged to Uncle K’s endeavors since Trudeau became PM, Cassidy? How much did Trudeau’s “free” vacays cost the Canadian taxpayer?
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