708 replies to this topic

[zoomer]

I am sure all of the stores are benefitting from people no longer wanting to travel downtown. Lots of free parking at the mall and lots of diversity in retail.
 
Long walk for everyone who purchased or is renting downtown and thought that they didn't need a car because the downtown has everything you need!

I think downtown is doing just as well as the suburban malls, no? Hillside has been 1/4 vacant for a decade now, Tillicum Mall - forget it - lots of vacancies at Mayfair still and it feels like it’s take a step back actually in terms of being a draw. Uptown never reached full occupancy. I can’t think of any big draws at the malls that would make we want to go there, except maybe for a hardware store, one or two clothing stores? Shopping in Victoria malls is a depressing experience.

Or you could shop downtown where there are incredible restaurants and pubs (Mayfair has neither, does any mall have that?) plus some amazing retail shops, furniture, art supply stores, original artist studios, the best bakeries, great book stores.. heck I could on and on, but it’s an obvious point. What is downtown missing that nearly all other Canadian city downtowns are missing (except for the big cities) - a large fully stocked hardware store.. what else? Atlas Stereo is exceptional for your video/audio needs, they match prices, you can get most of your electronic gadgets, phones, supplies, etc at a variety of locations. I dunno, when I look at shopping options I’d give downtown Victoria an 8 out of 10 and the malls a 2 out of 10. I used to tease bored teenagers for hanging out at malls, now I tease bored Boomers hanging out at malls and shopping at suburban plazas and Costco, lol. To each their own though, if you’re into suburban car culture, free and easy parking, large format stores with super size packs of food/everything plus a sense of security and safety from the outside world in a sterile environment with thin veneers creating a sense of a shop, building or streetscape, then I do get that. We all make choices that are right for us.

[Nparker]

I pretty much only go downtown for its restaurants.

[zoomer]

I'm more concerned with the impact of online shopping. Yes, the world is your oyster in terms of what you can order but it's hardly convenient for the most part. Do VV'ers really buy clothes online? Odds are you're going to have to return something and what a hassle that is. Before I buy something I want to be able to walk into store, see it, evaluate it, test it, try it take it home immediately not wait one, two, three days or even weeks for the item to arrive by mail especially with all the supply chain issues. Then there's a delivery issues if it's delivered to your home address you're worried about someone stealing it off your porch. If it's to an apartment you know the delivery people will just put that sticker on the front door and you'll have to go out of your way to some depot to pick it up.

Now I sound like a grumpy old man

[Mike K.]

I spent several hours at Mayfair yesterday. It’s pretty hokey, but it was relatively busy. We actually ended up buying clothes at the Bay, funnily enough. Then we went downtown, and the streets were eerily quiet. I took a photo of car-free Government at 4:30 and I don’t know if it was a fluke, but considering this is the Xmas season it felt like downtown was closed for business.

I guess the lack of office workers is having a profound impact, still?

[Barrrister]

Mike, I suspect that it is a number of factors combined. You are absolutely right that a lack of office workers is one but also less tourists and finally there are a lot of people like my wife who refuses to go downtown anymore but she does not want to she the joy of being around the druggies, 

 

Even five years ago she used to do all her shopping downtown,  No restaurants downtown anymore either. I am pretty sure that she is not the only one that feels like that.

[AllseeingEye]

I'm at the age where I am rather indifferent to car culture/mall culture/downtown vs suburban shopping culture - I just gravitate to whatever I need wherever it happens to be. If it has a fishing store and a decent home reno/hardware component then I'm good with it...!

 

That said on the subject of malls little miss ASE and me went on a preemptive Christmas shopping expedition to Vancouver last weekend which gave us a chance to spend the day together, which was the *real* point of the trip. Shopping was secondary although there are certain stores over there that beat anything here hands down, which was the secondary motivation for hitting the Big Smoke.

 

Like here d/t Vancouver even on a Saturday morning was eerily quiet, the traffic negligible, parking right downtown off Burrard and W Georgia a breeze; my point though was a completely unplanned stop at Tsawwassen Mills mall on the return trip as we had an hour to kill before hitting the ferry terminal and our reserved sailing.

 

My only other visit there had been to hit up the Bass Pro shop when the mall originally opened. Never went a step further beyond that store at that time. This time we did some 'sploring - now TM's is a_mall. Wow. Freaking thing is huge and unlike Mayfair or Tillicum whatever TM's may lack that doesn't include tenants nor variety. Was a bit surprised though given the sheer size of the property that they didn't incorporate a residential component unlike other large mainland malls like Oakridge, Brentwood Town Centre and Metrotown.

[Cats4Hire]

I've been downtown twice since covid. Once was to get my second shot (went to Langford for the first shot) back in August and the second was about a month ago meeting up with an old friend at Bay Center. Both times I saw the exact same amount of druggies as I did in 2019 and really, aside from being less crowded, it felt exactly the same.

[Barrrister]

Cats, my wife stopped going downtown before Covid hit.  I have no statistical number to say how much of a factor this is but I suspect it does come into play. 

 

I feel for the local business since they are being hit on all sides. 

[Cats4Hire]

Perhaps I should quantify that, I've never seen someone shooting up downtown (yes I know it does happen). Not all homeless are druggies if that's what you were getting at, even if they were I've also never been bothered by any either. They either ignore me or ask if I have money or food.

[Barrrister]

Absolutely agree that not all homeless are druggies but the vast majority are druggies. And before you jump on me my step son is a meth addict so I have tragically had more experience then I would ever want and a lot more sympathy than most for these poor souls. 

 

I dont know your gender but my wife like many women feel a lot more threatened and uncomfortable than most men do,

[Barrrister]

I take it that your point is that you feel comfortable so everybody else should be comfortable, 

 

 

The real point, from the merchants point of view, is whether or not they are actually losing business because some people dont feel comfortable. Is it a large number I have no idea, But when you consider the other problems it is one more brick,

[Cats4Hire]

That's true. I'm just saying I really don't get this narrative that "downtown is dying". As soon as we're back to standard tourist levels I think downtown will look exactly how it did in 2019. Are people switching to working from home? Possibly. Roads don't seem any less busy and buses are getting back to pre-pandemic levels of ridership though (although that's service wide, not just downtown. Based on the top ridden buses, routes from downtown still having pass-by issues at rush hour, and when the numbers dropped and spiked I have a feeling their levels were more related to UVic/Camosun being online only than anything downtown related but that would be hard to confirm).

[Cats4Hire]

I take it that your point is that you feel comfortable so everybody else should be comfortable, 

 

 

The real point, from the merchants point of view, is whether or not they are actually losing business because some people dont feel comfortable. Is it a large number I have no idea, But when you consider the other problems it is one more brick,

not at all but k

[Mike K.]

What’s hitting the merchants hard are the protests. Usually on a busy shopping day, like Friday or Saturday, or both, the protests start up and create chaos for vehicles and transit buses. That doesn’t translate well to sales.

[Nparker]

Maybe protestors could consider staging their terror tactics at local malls, just to be fair to all merchants/shoppers.

[Hotel Mike]

Downtown Victoria will continue to thrive, in spite of all the doomsayers. There are some areas that need attention, but overall the future looks bright. There have been some downer elements...retailers like The Gap pulling up stakes, some empty spaces that take away from the vibrancy. But I go downtown at least once a week and cover quite a few blocks each visit. I too have never seen anyone shooting up, have never been menaced in any way, and I say 'hi' to some of the regular and not tripping street people. If you don't utilize and enjoy the downtown of this city, you are seriously missing out. 

[Kapten Kapsell]

I am usually downtown at least twice each week, and I really enjoy shopping in the city centre.  Munro's Books is a regular stop for me, as are the Market on Yates and London Drugs.  I periodically shop at other downtown stores like DG Bremner's, and I enjoy dining at downtown Victoria restaurants. 

 

I will sometimes go to the Canadian Tire or Bolen Books at Hillside Mall, but this mall (along with Mayfair) is lacking in one key category:  full-service dining opportunities.  Anyone who wants a regular restaurant meal (rather than a food court offering) has to look elsewhere, but if you go downtown you have the option of parking your car once and doing shopping before or after a restaurant meal out.

[Mike K.]

Downtown Victoria will continue to thrive, in spite of all the doomsayers. There are some areas that need attention, but overall the future looks bright.

 

Maybe it's not quite that simple. There are too many retailers in Victoria who are on the cusp of bankruptcy, or already defaulting on their leases, or struggling to find sufficient staff, or all three, that are hanging on but just barely.

 

The future always looks bright but that's not going to pay the bills from now through May. And the protests that are strangling the downtown core are just another source of pressure for merchants that have gone through quite possibly the worst economic period in generations due to COVID and are now faced with supply chain issues and escalating costs.

[Barrrister]

I had hoped that the worst of Covid would have been over by now. I sometimes wonder if we are either in the midst of the worst or God forbid the worst is yet to come.

Edited by Barrrister, 23 November 2021 - 10:44 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Specialty retail was going away anyway. We don’t have the population to support niche stores.

We should probably be thankful to have Walmart, Canadian Tire, IKEA, Dollarama and Home Depot.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 November 2021 - 10:46 AM.