708 replies to this topic

[aastra]

Going underground is an option but doesn't make any economic sense unless it was bigger.

University Heights went underground years and years ago, so why can't Hillside?

That "urban village" concept won't be feasible without extensive underground parking, so why not get started on it now?

[VicHockeyFan]

I think residents need to move into the 21st century. I mean all neighbourhoods deal with parking issues and the area around Hillside is no different then Fairfield around Cook Street Village, James Bay around the legislature, downtown in general, Ferwood around their village etc etc...

The problem is not what the attraction is, the problem is that we have not effectively put in place rules that would make people consider take other methods of transport.

By implementing residential parking only and lowering the parking requirment at the mall we would get the best of both worlds less people using their cars and less people parking on residential streets.

If Hillside cannot survive financially without vast seas of parking then there is something wrong with their business model.

I'm not so sure about your comparisons. Downtown has LOTS of parking. Fernwood/Fairfield/Cook St. Village etc. have MUCH less sq. ft. of retail than a place like Hillside Mall.

[aastra]

The vast seas of parking are indeed necessary, but it isn't necessary for them to be above ground.

...the problem is that we have not effectively put in place rules that would make people consider take other methods of transport.

This is backward thinking, in my opinion. Neighbourhood villages aren't successful because some authority obligates people to patronize them. They're successful because of their convenience to the people who live in the immediate area. If you live close enough to walk, you walk. If the pedestrian traffic provides sufficient critical mass, businesses can survive off of it. If not, the village will die or will never come into existence in the first place.

Until the day comes that there are several dozen highrise towers on Hillside's parking lot, there's simply no way the low density population in the immediate area could sustain the mall's businesses. You've got a bookstore in there the size of a large supermarket, for crying out loud.

Malls are regional attractions. They are NOT neighbourhood villages, despite all of the recent guff claiming the contrary.

[G-Man]

^ I would argue most of the people in Cook Street Village do not live there and people tend to not drive there because it is a pain in the butt to park. Yet it is still busy.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ I would argue most of the people in Cook Street Village do not live there and people tend to not drive there because it is a pain in the butt to park. Yet it is still busy.

They don't live there, they don't drive there. How do they get there? The bus only comes every hour, I'm sure that's not how they get there. That'd only be 42 people per hour.

[aastra]

Lower Cook Street has to be one of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in Victoria, so I don't think it's a coincidence that there's a decent urban village there. Not to say that some people don't bike there or drive there or walk longer distances to get there...of course they do. But the dense local population is what produced the village in the first place and it's also what keeps the village going.

[G-Man]

I usually walk or ride my bike down there.

[VicHockeyFan]

I usually walk or ride my bike down there.

Me too, but we are one in 100.

[Caramia]

I walk.

[aastra]

To summarize, an urban village is a commercial area that springs up naturally because the local population density is high. Malls or power centres, on the other hand, tend to be purpose-built in low density areas precisely because they require a lot of cheap real estate for their expansive surface parking lots.

Right?

[Caramia]

Yes, but Cook Street Village has become more than an urban village. It is a destination... even with the huge gaping sore in the middle of it atm. As someone who grew up there, I return frequently but if you are there on a summer weekend it is wall to wall people, and I am almost certain they aren't all from the village. If Downtown were that vibrant we would have far less to worry about.

/edit - Sorry aastra I do believe you were trying to get the conversation back on track...
:oops:

[aastra]

I'm going to guess that more than half of Fairfield's total population lives within three blocks of the village, which -- if true -- would translate into an immediate local population of something like 6,000 people.

[G-Man]

I would think that perhaps a third does. Fairfield is pretty darn huge.

Anyways there a fair bit of density around Hillside as well. Just think of the string of four storey apartments and seniors homes that surround it.

[Icebergalley]

^ I would argue most of the people in Cook Street Village do not live there and people tend to not drive there because it is a pain in the butt to park. Yet it is still busy.

They don't live there, they don't drive there. How do they get there? The bus only comes every hour, I'm sure that's not how they get there. That'd only be 42 people per hour.

I've thought many times that the success or popularity of Cook St. Village was an example of what can happen when has both density and buying power combined..

It would be interesting to see comparisions done with other "villages" in the region to determine if my hypothese is valid..

Intuitively, I've said that even with all the street tarting up done to highlight Quadra Village, it may have density, but not the buying power to create the popularity that Cook St. has..

[Ms. B. Havin]

I've thought many times that the success or popularity of Cook St. Village was an example of what can happen when has both density and buying power combined..

It would be interesting to see comparisions done with other "villages" in the region to determine if my hypothese is valid..

Intuitively, I've said that even with all the street tarting up done to highlight Quadra Village, it may have density, but not the buying power to create the popularity that Cook St. has..

Good point. It's probably even a factor at the level of perception: if an area is perceived as "nicer" in terms of being of higher "value," it's attractive even if you're not going there to buy some smart new piece of furniture or shop for delicatessen, and are in fact there to have just a cup of coffee. But you'll go there, because it's interesting to see the mix.

That's probably the effect that the "creative classes" moving into an area has, too. The "creatives" don't necessarily have a huge buying power, but they add value to a neighbourhood, which in turn attracts people who do have buying power. That can lead to gentrification, too, but it's not necessarily all bad. In Fairfield, the "value" comes from both ends (interesting people and conventional $-value): lots of young people at Moka House & Starbucks, as well as high real estate prices that make the area "valuable" in a monetary sense. Start adding secondary suites (affordability?), more people, used/ antique furniture stores (vs. straightforward "thrift shops"), media (Pic-a-flic), delis, and you're off...

[Galvanized]

I've heard two rumours now that this plan is dead. Anyone out there know anything at all?

[G-Man]

Thank god it was such a bad plan. They need to build residential on top and stretch it to the street.

[gumgum]

Hillside Centre awaits permits
Times Colonist
Published: Friday, July 04, 2008

[Rob Randall]

This goes before CotW this Thursday at 9 am for its Development Permit.

[amor de cosmos]

Hillside Shopping Centre To Be Transformed

VICTORIA - The Hillside faithful will be walking a very different mall in about two years. It's promised to be bigger, better looking, and better on the environment, and Thursday, it got the green light from Victoria Council.
Hillside Shopping Centre will undergo a $60-million facelift and a 7500 square-metre expansion on its east side - along Shelbourne St. "We're basically delivering a new shopping centre," says Development Manager Michael Mehak.

The exterior of the mall will be almost unrecognizable. The nearby automotive building will be demolished, hundreds of trees will be planted on the property, and the green won't stop there. "It will probably be a benchmark shopping centre as it relates to storm water retention and we are looking towards LEED certification," adds Mehak.

As for the shopping - there will be 20 new stores in the east wing, and an improved mix of men's and women's fashions.

The developer is also promising better vehicle access to the notoriously tight lot, and expanded parking on the roof. Construction is set to begin by late summer or early fall.

http://www.atv.ca/vi...news_66619.aspx