3079 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

The AirBnB regulations have done nothing to the rental market, and but the impact on price where AirBnBs remain permitted by the City has been substantial.

AirBnB, of course, also has its challenges. It can put an owner on shaky grounds with the strata and fines can start pouring in. But if, say, you live in a building where AirBnB is permitted, and you’re a sailor with the navy who’s at sea 6-9 months straight, why wouldn’t you AirBnB your empty condo? That unit will never become a full time rental, and it’s not a vacation property. In fact, I can tell you that many sailors do just that when they’re at sea, and to the average person looking at listings their units appear to be investment properties, but they’re actually not.

[Awaiting Juno]

Except those here haven't debunked the idea that Air BnB is an issue - and the economics studies in this area support the idea that Air BnB can be harmful to local economies. It's a small problem - except most problems are marginal in nature. You don't have traffic congestion until there are more cars on the road than the road can carry. You don't have price appreciation, until there is more demand for product than there is supply. It's not a problem, until it is.

 

I'd rather not have Air BnB until our vacancy rate is a healthy 3 to 5% than enable people to sleep in cars because the vacancy rate isn't at that magical number.

[Awaiting Juno]

The AirBnB regulations have done nothing to the rental market, and but the impact on price where AirBnBs remain permitted by the City has been substantial.

AirBnB, of course, also has its challenges. It can put an owner on shaky grounds with the strata and fines can start pouring in. But if, say, you live in a building where AirBnB is permitted, and you’re a sailor with the navy who’s at sea 6-9 months straight, why wouldn’t you AirBnB your empty condo? That unit will never become a full time rental, and it’s not a vacation property. In fact, I can tell you that many sailors do just that when they’re at sea, and to the average person looking at listings their units appear to be investment properties, but they’re actually not.

 

And how many would prefer that it be a "sub-let" or fixed term lease because a tenancy of 3 months is a whole lot better than being forced to sleep in a van? Medium term rentals that look more like traditional residential tenancies might ease some of the pressure.

[Victoria Watcher]

nobody is "forced" to sleep in a van.  that's a made-up issue.  our permissiveness has made it a reality.

[Victoria Watcher]

Except those here haven't debunked the idea that Air BnB is an issue - and the economics studies in this area support the idea that Air BnB can be harmful to local economies.

 

from your link:

 

Then there are the clear economic benefits for local economies that stand to gain from the increase in tourists supported with a wider variety of affordable and available holiday listings. Homeowners and landlords also benefit, as turning their rooms and properties into short-term lets can offer an alternative and lucrative source of revenue.

 

 

we reading the same article?

[Mike K.]

But you’re not giving us any data, you’re just giving us an opinion. If you can present data depicting the volume of full-time AirBnBs that are purely investments (not someone’s full-time residence rented out when opportunity strikes) then we can assess the actual impact on the rental market.

[Awaiting Juno]

Yet more evidence about the impact of Air BnB on the longer term rental market - evidence from the pandemic. 

[Victoria Watcher]

I'd rather not have Air BnB until our vacancy rate is a healthy 3 to 5% than enable people to sleep in cars because the vacancy rate isn't at that magical number.

 

in a high property tax environment and with rent control that's not likely ever realistic.  unless the local or wider economy tanks.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2021 - 08:17 AM.

[Mike K.]

And how many would prefer that it be a "sub-let" or fixed term lease because a tenancy of 3 months is a whole lot better than being forced to sleep in a van? Medium term rentals that look more like traditional residential tenancies might ease some of the pressure.

This scenario doesn’t exist. There is nobody living in a van on the streets of Victoria, because they couldn’t rent an expensive, high-end apartment in a condo for three months.

[Victoria Watcher]

depends who you commission to do your reports most likely.  the UVic types or woke politicians - or the business types.

 

 

 

Studies Find Short-Term Rentals Bring Enormous Economic Benefits to Chicago, St. Joseph, Michigan

 

https://www.prnewswi...-250045171.html

 

 

 

According to Matt Curtis, in the U.S., extreme regulations such as bans tend to drive undesirable activity underground rather than solve problems. Curtis is founder of Smart City Policy Group, which works with the industry and policymakers on short-term rental regulations.

 

This “creates a terrible experience for the local communities,” he said, which is not a desirable outcome for either communities or responsible members of the short-term rental industry.

___________________________

 

In another example, while anecdotal evidence paints vacation rentals as disruptive to neighborhoods, they actually often have a positive impact on their communities as economic engines.

 

“The economic impact is not just from a tourism tax or from a lodging tax. It's the economic impact to the local restaurants, the local stores,” Knudsen said. Presenting the positive impact of the industry in terms of dollars and cents can be a powerful persuader.

 

https://www.avalara....pportunity.html

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2021 - 08:24 AM.

[Awaiting Juno]

from your link:

 

 

we reading the same article?

 

From the next paragraph of the same article: "But in recent years the impact of Airbnb’s service on local economics and rental markets has come under the spotlight. And analysis conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, a non-profit, non-partisan American think tank, found that the economic costs of Airbnb likely outweigh the benefits."

[Mike K.]

We’re now veering into an abyss of headlines and reports from faraway places, when discussing ultra local (municipal) issues.

I’ve shown a lot of data specific to Victoria that was claimed to not exist, and so far that hasn’t been reciprocated when counter claims are made, leading me to believe the problems Juno is trying to address are more personal in nature (ie problem cats and problem AirBnBs in the neighbourbood; a dislike of downtown Victoria’s density; a
personal objection to more density in single family dwelling neighbourhoods).

Those are all perfectly fine opinions but I would urge for us to discuss the reality based on data and facts, and not just assume things.

[Victoria Watcher]

has this council ever addressed or discussed the loss of more budget-friendly holiday accommodations (Air BnB and hotels lost to homeless people)?   and that effect on the core economy?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2021 - 08:37 AM.

[Mike K.]

I don’t think so. The budget side of the lodging industry is now firmly in the hands of the provincial government, with limited budget stay options available. I can’t recall if the HoJo and the Ramada are leased or owned, or were leased?

Lots of motels along Gorge already double as full-time rentals, and multiple motels on Douglas also converted to supportive housing (Tally-Ho; Motel 8) or full-time rentals.

[Awaiting Juno]

Question on the statscan data - as you seem a bit of an expert Mike. Is the census data on dwellings complete? Are places used exclusively for vacation units considered "dwellings" in the count? I note the dwelling count between 2011 and 2016 increased by 1,500 units - yet, it would seem that in that same time period we built a lot more than 1,500 units. I'd be shocked if you told me we only built 300 units a year....

[Mike K.]

Yes, they are still a dwelling, as they were constructed as such. But we have to acknowledge a caveat when it comes to zoning, because many dwellings built within multiple neighbourhoods up until recently permitted transient usage (hotel; AirBnB). It wasn’t until council voted to sunset the blanket transient zoning layer, and grandfather but formally license dwellings that were being used for transient purposes as they were legally permitted to do via zoning, that we saw formal policy change. The issue of operating transient units without obligatory transient taxes and fees was that hotels had to pay them, these units did not, and the hotel operators were not happy. That has been rectified now. This transient zoning layer came about in the early 90s as Victoria was preparing for the Commonwealth Games in 1994. The City knew it didn’t have sufficient hotel inventory so it blanket zoned multiple areas for transient zoning to allow people to house tourists. You can read more about this here: https://victoria.cit...uts-down-roots/

With regards to new unit inventory, yes that is correct. The first purpose-built rental tower in downtown since the 80s did not complete until 2014, with 120-units. Remember, 2009-2014 the economy was still reeling from the financial collapse of 2008. In Victoria the cogs started turning in 2015.

Edited by Mike K., 11 October 2021 - 09:13 AM.

[Awaiting Juno]

Yes, they are still a dwelling, as they were constructed as such. But we have to acknowledge a caveat when it comes to zoning, because many dwellings built within multiple neighbourhoods up until recently permitted transient usage (hotel; AirBnB). It wasn’t until council voted to sunset the blanket transient zoning layer, and grandfather but formally license dwellings that were being used for transient purposes as they were legally permitted to do via zoning, that we saw formal policy change. The issue of operating transient units without obligatory transient taxes and fees was that hotels had to pay them, these units did not, and the hotel operators were not happy. That has been rectified now.

With regards to new unit inventory, yes that is correct. The first purpose-built rental tower in downtown since the 80s did not complete until 2014, with 120-units. Remember, 2009-2014 the economy was still reeling from the financial collapse of 2008. In Victoria the cogs started turning in 2015.

 

But the statscan data is total dwellings - both rental and otherwise alike. It seems like we really have a poor grasp of the dwelling count in the city.

[Mike K.]

They break it down by rented dwellings, too. It’s all in there.

The breakdown of rented vs owned is one of the most fundamental data points for civic planning. It’s critical to have that data, and we do.

[Banksy]

“I’m making stuff up to satisfy my biases and I’m coming for your cats!” Vote Juno for councillor because This! Mom! Knows! Best! ®.

[Mike K.]

Juno, you’ve got us as a resource. You can always ask for insight into the housing issue, and there are people with a lot of insight into other issues.

If you’re going to run, and one of your platform points is changing some part of the housing industry it is probably important to have a working knowledge of this industry and to be on the side of the data, because it’s too easy to be defaulted into a defensive position during a campaign and then there’s no coming back from it, or it becomes a challenging struggle that drains your time and resources. Don’t be afraid to ask us for input.