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2022 City of Victoria Election


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#561 DavidL

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 07:05 AM

In our market, the short-term rental effect on market housing argument belongs in the same dustbin as the foreign buyer driving up housing prices argument.  The legal short term rentals represent a tiny proportion of potential housing in Victoria, and are part of a healthy spectrum of accommodation not only for tourists, but for visiting families, medical treatments, locums and so on.  They, like foreign buyers, are an easily identifiable bogey man around which one can safely build an opposing position without actually having to address real issues.  It is the appearance of taking action rather than actually taking action.  Let's focus on actual issues that the city needs to address.


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#562 sebberry

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 07:52 AM

In our market, the short-term rental effect on market housing argument belongs in the same dustbin as the foreign buyer driving up housing prices argument.  The legal short term rentals represent a tiny proportion of potential housing in Victoria, and are part of a healthy spectrum of accommodation not only for tourists, but for visiting families, medical treatments, locums and so on.  They, like foreign buyers, are an easily identifiable bogey man around which one can safely build an opposing position without actually having to address real issues.  It is the appearance of taking action rather than actually taking action.  Let's focus on actual issues that the city needs to address.

 

I have friends who like to head over to the mainland occasionally.  They like staying at AirBnBs with their toddler.  It's more economical and practical with their toddler and can prepare their own meals, etc...   They just give people an additional option when travelling.  

 

On the flip side I sure wouldn't want to live in a condo building with lots of short term rentals.  A coworker recently did that and had their car broken into multiple times.  


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#563 Barrrister

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:00 AM

If only we could figure out how to have buildings exclusively for short term rentals?


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#564 DavidL

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:02 AM

On the flip side I sure wouldn't want to live in a condo building with lots of short term rentals.  A coworker recently did that and had their car broken into multiple times.  

 

I doubt there's any causal relationship between short term rentals and car break ins.  The idea that guests are less concerned about security is unfounded.  The idea that it is the guests breaking into cars is a bit far fetched.  



#565 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:17 AM

If only we could figure out how to have buildings exclusively for short term rentals?

 

You mean, like hotels? What a novel idea.


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#566 sebberry

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:27 AM

I doubt there's any causal relationship between short term rentals and car break ins.  The idea that guests are less concerned about security is unfounded.  The idea that it is the guests breaking into cars is a bit far fetched.  

 

But you have a lot more people coming and going, nobody knows who lives in the building and a lot more people more likely to hold a door open for a stranger milling about waiting to break in.  I know in my building it's a pain to get residents to wait for the garage door to close before driving away, you think AirBnB guests are going to be thinking about that?  


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#567 sebberry

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:29 AM

If only we could figure out how to have buildings exclusively for short term rentals?

 

If only those buildings, like the Taxi industry, would be flexible and adapt more easily to market demands.  


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#568 Mike K.

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:32 AM

You mean, like hotels? What a novel idea.

 

I think it's the hotel concept that is losing ground to options like AirBnB. Look at the volume of hotel rooms Victoria has lost, I mean we're talking thousands of rooms since 2000.


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#569 Nparker

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:41 AM

I think it's the hotel concept that is losing ground to options like AirBnB. Look at the volume of hotel rooms Victoria has lost, I mean we're talking thousands of rooms since 2000.

Many of those rooms weren't really lost from lack of demand (outside of the pandemic), but taken over by outside forces in a time of crisis in the hospitality industry.



#570 Mike K.

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:43 AM

Over 1,200 disappeared well before COVID, though. And they've been falling annually. COVID took away a further 500, give or take?


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#571 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:43 AM

I think it's the hotel concept that is losing ground to options like AirBnB. Look at the volume of hotel rooms Victoria has lost, I mean we're talking thousands of rooms since 2000.

 

And the rooms lost are a poor substitute for housing. So we're making housing transient accommodation, and making what were hotels, less than ideal housing for residents. The hotels were hotels because their locations made them convenient for travelers, but really less than ideal for residents. If hotels need to adopt (by having more suite like accommodation) - then they should adopt, but infiltration into residential is muddy at best and likely to have adverse consequences on our tax base. At the very least, the measurement of both residential and commercial accommodations needs to be clear. We need to clearly know how much we need to build in order to meet demand, and we need to have confidence that we're not making the problems we have worse. And again, the province needs to step in so that providing residential housing is something that people want to do because the risks and return are reasonable.



#572 Nparker

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:44 AM

...COVID took away a further 500, give or take?

In the space of a few months!



#573 Mike K.

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:50 AM

And the rooms lost are a poor substitute for housing. So we're making housing transient accommodation, and making what were hotels, less than ideal housing for residents. The hotels were hotels because their locations made them convenient for travelers, but really less than ideal for residents. If hotels need to adopt (by having more suite like accommodation) - then they should adopt, but infiltration into residential is muddy at best and likely to have adverse consequences on our tax base. At the very least, the measurement of both residential and commercial accommodations needs to be clear. We need to clearly know how much we need to build in order to meet demand, and we need to have confidence that we're not making the problems we have worse. And again, the province needs to step in so that providing residential housing is something that people want to do because the risks and return are reasonable.

 

 

Oh I dunno, I mean the Queen Victoria Inn became the Q Apartments, Harbour Towers became The James, etc. Those are highly desirable places for people to live.

 

AirBnB growth is done in Victoria. It's not expanding, it has been regulated. We have nothing to gain by putting resources into studies of something that is now capped.


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#574 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:51 AM

And I think most would agree that those locations better served the community as hotels rather than as warehouses for those who are experiencing homelessness. Most would be relieved to have those locations reverted to their previous uses as hotels and to see a system of much smaller, well managed, distributed secure complex care facilities take their place. 



#575 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:52 AM

And the rooms lost are a poor substitute for housing. So we're making housing transient accommodation, and making what were hotels, less than ideal housing for residents. The hotels were hotels because their locations made them convenient for travelers, but really less than ideal for residents. If hotels need to adopt (by having more suite like accommodation) - then they should adopt, but infiltration into residential is muddy at best and likely to have adverse consequences on our tax base. At the very least, the measurement of both residential and commercial accommodations needs to be clear. We need to clearly know how much we need to build in order to meet demand, and we need to have confidence that we're not making the problems we have worse. And again, the province needs to step in so that providing residential housing is something that people want to do because the risks and return are reasonable.


Most of the “hard to house” are unsuitable for any form of self contained living. They are better off in congregate areas and on cots.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 October 2021 - 09:03 AM.

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#576 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:58 AM

Most of the “hard to house” are unsuitable for any form of self contained living. They are better of in congregate areas and on cots.

 

It'd be nice to know what number of people in one location is an "ideal". Maybe having people picked up by a bus to be taken to a shelter location each night, with each location having 20 cots would be better. What we're doing isn't working - and we need to do something that does a better job of moving people out of lifestyles that are dysfunctional into something more sustainable.


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#577 Mike K.

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:58 AM

And I think most would agree that those locations better served the community as hotels rather than as warehouses for those who are experiencing homelessness. Most would be relieved to have those locations reverted to their previous uses as hotels and to see a system of much smaller, well managed, distributed secure complex care facilities take their place. 

 

What are you proposing, Juno? That we tear down the former hotels, and re-build them as supportive housing? I think that's the long-term plan from the province, but we can all agree that the way the province is handling these facilities today is far from ideal.


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#578 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:02 AM

What are you proposing, Juno? That we tear down the former hotels, and re-build them as supportive housing? I think that's the long-term plan from the province, but we can all agree that the way the province is handling these facilities today is far from ideal.

 

No I'm saying the hotels should revert to their intended purpose - commercial properties in our core, and not be converted into supportive housing as the facilities are too large and too conducive to maintaining dysfunctional lifestyles. The concentration of dysfunction makes it far worse - we need facilities that are more like long term care facilities focused on rehabilitation and re-integration into the community (where possible).


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#579 Mike K.

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:08 AM

I think those ships have sailed, though, with respect to converting them back to hotels unless the province intends to get into the hotel industry.

 

I also don't think supportive housing will be in the future what it is today, and any treatment/rehab facilities will be situated in different environments than within urban centres.


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#580 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:12 AM

^ you wish. I doubt it.

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