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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#5261 spanky123

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 01:38 PM

That's just not true. There has been a line waiting for an outside table at Bard and Banker, Irish Times, and The Local every sunny day the last couple of weeks. Whistle Buoy has been full, The Drake has expanded to the lower level of Market Square. They may be empty inside, and they may be struggling to make enough money or hire enough help, but there is clearly demand for additional outside seating in the downtown core. 

 

Are you talking during the day or in the evening? I go by there during the day most days and I rarely ever see anyone at a table.



#5262 Nparker

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:19 PM

I bet Munros is champing at the bit to drag their books outside each day.
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#5263 Greg

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:42 PM

Are you talking during the day or in the evening? I go by there during the day most days and I rarely ever see anyone at a table.

 

Sunny days from about 2 or 3 on. To be fair, sunny days in June in Victoria may be the issue.


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#5264 Greg

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:44 PM

I bet Munros is champing at the bit to drag their books outside each day.

 

A book display in front of a bookstore isn't exactly unheard of. I mean it's not going to benefit them to the degree it does someone selling beer, but it could help.



#5265 Nparker

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:12 PM

A book display in front of a bookstore isn't exactly unheard of. I mean it's not going to benefit them to the degree it does someone selling beer, but it could help.

But do they need the street closed down to have a book display out front?



#5266 Greg

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:22 PM

But do they need the street closed down to have a book display out front?

 

No that's so you can serve lots of beer, so drunk people can trip over the book display.

 

Seriously, I have no idea if the action will help or not, but if it increases pedestrian activity along Government Street, that's probably good for Munro's and lots of other businesses. If I want to drive my car to a bookstore, I'm not going to Munro's in the first place. Pedestrians are typically good for downtown stores, IMHO.


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#5267 Nparker

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 04:04 PM

...Pedestrians are typically good for downtown stores, IMHO.

So maybe cruise ships should have been allowed to visit Victoria this summer. They generate the largest number of pedestrians on Government Street - and that's even before there were any road closures.


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#5268 Mike K.

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 05:41 PM

No that's so you can serve lots of beer, so drunk people can trip over the book display.

 

Seriously, I have no idea if the action will help or not, but if it increases pedestrian activity along Government Street, that's probably good for Munro's and lots of other businesses. If I want to drive my car to a bookstore, I'm not going to Munro's in the first place. Pedestrians are typically good for downtown stores, IMHO.

 

My take on the various measures is mistakes will be made, silly ideas will be implemented, but so will great ideas, so will good moves, etc. I'm glad to see things moving forward at a fast pace, for once. I just want to see more cooperation between the various agencies and leaving the DVBA out of the discussion is bad business. The City is learning, though, and next time I hope the DVBA will lead with similar measures rather than be caught unprepared.


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#5269 Nparker

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 06:26 PM

What about recent decisions makes you think the city is learning anything...except perhaps the best ways to steam roller over consultation during a crisis.
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#5270 spanky123

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 07:11 PM

My take on the various measures is mistakes will be made, silly ideas will be implemented, but so will great ideas, so will good moves, etc. I'm glad to see things moving forward at a fast pace, for once. I just want to see more cooperation between the various agencies and leaving the DVBA out of the discussion is bad business. The City is learning, though, and next time I hope the DVBA will lead with similar measures rather than be caught unprepared.

 

I was about to point out that the Mayor's continued last minute submission of controversial agenda items made it appear as though circumventing the DVBA and public opinion was intentional, when I noticed an agenda item for this week's COTW meeting. https://pub-victoria...ocumentId=54042

 

Credit to CTJ and MA for calling out this behaviour and attempting to end it with a motion to flag late agenda items. 

 

Now we need to hope that it passes.


Edited by spanky123, 08 June 2020 - 07:12 PM.

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#5271 Mike K.

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 08:18 PM

It’s about time. I’m surprised Young was not a signatory.
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#5272 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 07:34 AM

It’s about time. I’m surprised Young was not a signatory.

 

I would have gone further and just stated that any agenda item introduced later than Friday afternoon would be deferred until the following meeting unless unanimously approved by council (to allow for actual emergencies). 

 

That would have ended the practice in its entirety.


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#5273 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 11:04 AM

I do feel that the approach is being used to circumvent media attention on issues being brought forward to council.  If there isn't time for the media to know what's on the agenda, there isn't time for the public to have discourse on the subject that might sway how council votes due to political backlash.

 

I think the electorate is growing weary of poor management at council - having an agenda and thoughtful discussion of policy is a core function and games to undermine that are distasteful and wasteful.


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#5274 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 11:08 AM

I would not be surprised if a class action lawsuit emerges out of the current scenario.
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#5275 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 11:34 AM

I do feel that the approach is being used to circumvent media attention on issues being brought forward to council.  If there isn't time for the media to know what's on the agenda, there isn't time for the public to have discourse on the subject that might sway how council votes due to political backlash.

 

I think the electorate is growing weary of poor management at council - having an agenda and thoughtful discussion of policy is a core function and games to undermine that are distasteful and wasteful.

 

I check the agendas regularly and post on important items. The trend towards inserting controversial items at the last minute has been ongoing for a while but reached a new low last week when not only was the Government St closure inserted at the last minute, it was inserted under the sub-title "appendix e." within the broader economic recovery topic pretty much guaranteeing that nobody would see it unless they read every attachment to the agenda. As we now know, there was no consultation with key stakeholders in advance with the DVBA and Taxi Association both saying that they were blindsided. Much like the SJM statue, a complete circumvention of the democratic process and then a rush to implement before anyone can complain. 


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#5276 GetLisaSomeHelps

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 12:19 PM

While council is acting legally by the letter of the law, they are certainly not acting in the spirit of the law when it comes to these last minute agenda items.


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#5277 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 12:51 PM

While council is acting legally by the letter of the law, they are certainly not acting in the spirit of the law when it comes to these last minute agenda items.

 

Which is why I believe that Helps is now being told enough is enough. The other factor of course is that some councilors basically get railroaded into supporting motions thinking that they have been fully baked only to find out after the fact they were not.

 

Helps has said that she is leaving in 2.5 years so i would recommend to the other councilors that they slow walk her initiatives now to make sure that they are acting in the best interests of the public and not simply to support a follow on career path.


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#5278 GetLisaSomeHelps

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 01:02 PM

Which is why I believe that Helps is now being told enough is enough. The other factor of course is that some councilors basically get railroaded into supporting motions thinking that they have been fully baked only to find out after the fact they were not.

 

 

Totally. It's long been my believe that any council initiated motion should allow for a "cooling off" or "discussion period" for the public/media/interest groups to give feedback.


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#5279 Spy Black

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 01:27 PM

Helps has said that she is leaving in 2.5 years so i would recommend to the other councilors that they slow walk her initiatives now to make sure that they are acting in the best interests of the public and not simply to support a follow on career path.

Perhaps avoiding their still being on Council in 2023, with the now departed Help's version of the Blue Bridge as it was left for this Council to figure out?

 

Maybe Helps will ram through tearing down all COV car parkades, to be rebuilt as 20 story free homeless condos - only for Helps to then depart, and leave a clearly impossible project (whatever it might be) in the hands of Councillors who were around to encourage her, only to then be forced to wear what she left behind as egg on their face.



#5280 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 01:29 PM

Totally. It's long been my believe that any council initiated motion should allow for a "cooling off" or "discussion period" for the public/media/interest groups to give feedback.

 

Agreed. Alto and TJ have traditionally supported the Mayor (perhaps because she was the lesser of two evils) so it is significant that they have brought this motion forward and that TJ voted against the Major on a couple of initiatives recently.



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