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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#3401 Mike K.

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:07 PM

It's not that simple.

 

Someone from Texas doesn't much care whether they stopped in Victoria or in Nanaimo. Some passengers don't even care to disembark as they're on the cruise to see Alaska and not some in-between port of call at the end of their journey.

 

There's only so much push a forced stop-over courtesy of the Jones Act will accommodate before cruise lines start to pursue alternatives, like Nanaimo or Prince Rupert.


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#3402 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:10 PM

Form the document:

 

Let's think this through. Each ship carries on average 3,000 passengers and crew. July will see 56 arrivals next year. 56 x 3,000 = 168,000 individuals.

 

If the ships dispose of 150 tonnes of garbage per month, and that 150 tonnes = 1% of monthly refuse transported to Hartland, it sounds like the impact is actually quite minuscule considering they effectively drop off waste for volume of people that represents about half of our population.

 

i'm not sure about your math here.  that's not 168000 persons worth of all-month garbage.  that's for their 4-8 hour stay.  

 

does this mean the ships are dropping garbage here in bulk?  if that's the case it's probably just because it's cheap to do it here (compared to seattle).

 

does the city take any position on the $2 or $3 per hour some cruise staff earn while in port here?

 

with a cabin steward earning between “$650 and $1,150 per month.”

 

 

https://www.cruzely....-its-employees/


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2019 - 03:17 PM.


#3403 Greg

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:13 PM

https://thebarentsob...ise-ship-market

 

"Ports without shore-power will be losers in future cruise ship market"

 

I think it is soon going to be much better to be a port with shore power, than one without. Victoria isn't negotiation from a position of abject weakness, and the ask isn't that great.


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#3404 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:20 PM

That Council request that the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority not increase the number of cruise ships coming to Victoria, sign any long-term contracts, or consider home-porting cruise ships until the emissions and waste issues are dealt with to the satisfaction of the City’s Director of Engineering and Public Works.



#3405 Mike K.

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:23 PM

i'm not sure about your math here.  that's not 168000 persons worth of all-month garbage.  that's for their 4-8 hour stay.  

 

does this mean the ships are dropping garbage here in bulk?  if that's the case it's probably just because it's cheap to do it here (compared to seattle).

 

does the city take any position on the $3 or $4 per hour some cruise staff earn while in port here?

 

What I mean is you're going to generate garbage when 168,000 people visit your city, and if those 168,000 part-time people contribute 1% to the landfill that's commensurate with full-time residents contributing the remaining 99% (1% = 3,700 Victorians; 5,600 people visit Victoria via cruise ship daily).


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#3406 Nparker

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:25 PM

...Someone from Texas doesn't much care whether they stopped in Victoria or in Nanaimo...There's only so much push a forced stop-over courtesy of the Jones Act will accommodate before cruise lines start to pursue alternatives, like Nanaimo or Prince Rupert.

Based on my own cruise experiences, most cruise passengers are more savvy than this. A port switch from Victoria to Nanaimo or Prince Rupert is unlikely to happen unless our port charges skyrocketed compared to alternate BC coastal locations.



#3407 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:27 PM

well it's 330000 pounds (150 tonnes).  so is each passenger (168000 of them) walking off the ship with 2 pounds of garbage each or is that what they are creating while ashore?  i still don't quite understand the figure.

 

how much garbage are tourists arriving via yvr swartz bay and the clipper/coho bringing?  is there a similar plan to have them leave garbage behind before arriving?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2019 - 03:31 PM.


#3408 Mike K.

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:34 PM

That's for passengers and crew (3,000 average is actually much smaller than the real average, I think, but I just used it for simplicity). I assume the garbage the City is talking about refers to garbage picked up at Ogden Point.


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#3409 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:36 PM

the idea that even a sliver of the crew come ashore is incorrect. I bet at best 100 of them come in each sailing.

#3410 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:37 PM

That's for passengers and crew (3,000 average is actually much smaller than the real average, I think, but I just used it for simplicity). I assume the garbage the City is talking about refers to garbage picked up at Ogden Point.


I presume we would have heard about it before if 12 garbage trucks service each ship. how many tonnes does a garbage truck carry? 5? so 1 garbage truck per ship seems minor.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 October 2019 - 03:39 PM.


#3411 spanky123

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:43 PM

well it's 330000 pounds (150 tonnes).  so is each passenger (168000 of them) walking off the ship with 2 pounds of garbage each or is that what they are creating while ashore?  i still don't quite understand the figure.

 

how much garbage are tourists arriving via yvr swartz bay and the clipper/coho bringing?  is there a similar plan to have them leave garbage behind before arriving?

 

I think that the suggestion is the cruise ships are consolidating garbage and dumping it wherever fees are most attractive.



#3412 Mike K.

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:58 PM

I presume we would have heard about it before if 12 garbage trucks service each ship. how many tonnes does a garbage truck carry? 5? so 1 garbage truck per ship seems minor.


Not even, more like half a garbage truck per ship.

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#3413 Mike K.

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:59 PM

Hold on, Google says normal garbage trucks haul 12-14 tonnes.

So that’s 11 trucks per month. Big deal.

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#3414 aastra

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 05:59 PM

Yesterday's best hope is today's big problem. Politicians work hard to offset prosperity with crisis. Gotta maintain that balance:

 

 

Daily Colonist
October 30, 1977

Bigger port "dead duck"

Victoria Ald. William Tindall recently attended a seminar on Western Canadian ports and says he came away with the distinct impression that Victoria's days as a port city were numbered.

...Victoria's only chance was to capitalize on its potential for cruise ships.

Vancouver was port of call for 100 cruises last year, compared with only 28 in Victoria. There was no reason Victoria shouldn't be included in the schedule of every cruise ship coming to Western Canada, Tindall said.

Although he hated to be pessimistic, he couldn't help but get the message from the seminar that plans for expanding Victoria's port facilities were "a dead duck,"


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#3415 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:59 PM

It's not that simple.

 

Someone from Texas doesn't much care whether they stopped in Victoria or in Nanaimo. Some passengers don't even care to disembark as they're on the cruise to see Alaska and not some in-between port of call at the end of their journey.

 

There's only so much push a forced stop-over courtesy of the Jones Act will accommodate before cruise lines start to pursue alternatives, like Nanaimo or Prince Rupert.

the jones act is my favourite ...

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#3416 On the Level

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:32 PM

Hold on, Google says normal garbage trucks haul 12-14 tonnes.

So that’s 11 trucks per month. Big deal.

How much garbage comes out of our hotels and goes to Hartland?  Perhaps this is another area the CoV can target.  Reduce hotels and you'll reduce garbage.  Same goes for restaurants.  


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#3417 Midnightly

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:16 PM

How much garbage comes out of our hotels and goes to Hartland?  Perhaps this is another area the CoV can target.  Reduce hotels and you'll reduce garbage.  Same goes for restaurants.  

 

if you think alot comes out of hotels.. just imagine how much comes out of hospitals! nearly everything in hospitals is wrapped in plastic


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#3418 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:18 PM

we need to reduce hospitals.
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#3419 FogPub

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:22 PM

the idea that even a sliver of the crew come ashore is incorrect. I bet at best 100 of them come in each sailing.

The times you see a lot of crew spending time ashore in town are spring and fall, when the ships come in for longer layovers and-or refits.



#3420 rjag

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:21 AM

I spend time volunteering at Soap for Hope and Disaster Aid Canada 

 

You would be shocked to see what is donated by local hotels to these non-profits as a way of diversion to the landfill. 

 

Bedding, bathrobes towels and slippers as well as toiletries and lost and found. 

 

Approx 6 skid lots a week are received and repurposed into bedding packs, hygiene kits etc. Approx 2500 kits are distributed locally every month to the shelters and 5-10,000 kits are sent on disaster relief annually. Yesterday I moved 200 bed packs which is 2 sheets plus a comforter to be prepped for a shipment to Africa through Compassionate Resource Warehouse.

 

Cruise ships that come for refit often donate all their bedding mattresses and furniture etc. What they can take is redistributed through shelters etc.

 

Landfill diversion is huge and there are lots of non-profits willing to step in and work with these outfits.

 

Soap for Hope has approx 60% of the hotels in Victoria and up-island, Vancouver, Whistler, Kelowna and Calgary. 

 

Helps doesnt mention the good relationship the cruise lines have with local non profits at their ports of call 


Edited by rjag, 12 October 2019 - 08:21 AM.

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