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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#8081 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 04:25 PM

quote

 

 

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#8082 rmpeers

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:21 PM

quote


That photo montage never fails to make me smile.
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#8083 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 05:14 AM

Helps said she wrote the post to condemn racism against Dubow and in general, but she would not prevent residents from voicing their opinions about whether he should resign.

 

 

“People have a right to say whatever they want, as long as it’s not racist,” she said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...llor-1.24286150

 

 

 

incorrect, lisa helps.  people have a "right" to say racists things.  that's part of living in a free society.  

 

that's part of the "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" way that we are rightfully set up.

 

because as soon as we say that you can't say some things, then we put ourselves in a position that someone else will decide what is acceptable or not.  and punishable by law.   


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 05:18 AM.

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#8084 Rob Randall

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:11 AM

But that right doesn't extend to evading the consequences; yelling "fire" in a theatre etc.


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#8085 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:14 AM

But that right doesn't extend to evading the consequences; yelling "fire" in a theatre etc.

 

yes.  i think we all know that.  inciting violence etc.  and of course you can look like an ass and be treated as same for expressing your racist views.  but you can express them.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 07:20 AM.


#8086 Mike K.

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:24 AM

Interestingly enough, where are criticisms of unfounded accusations of racism against people who merely look, vote, dress or sound a certain way?


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#8087 Spy Black

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:28 AM

.........people have a "right" to say racists things.  that's part of living in a free society.  

  

Not quite a "right".

Racism isn't "part of living in a free society", and much of what can, or can't be said (or written) is codified in law:

https://www2.gov.bc....m/antiracismfaq

 

Of course, in Dubow's case, he's just a ineffective politician with very little (or no) understanding of the job he's been elected into.

His heritage is completely irrelevant ... his words and actions speak volumes, and are all one needs to reference in order to pass judgement on his political undertaking.



#8088 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:31 AM

Not quite a "right".

Racism isn't "part of living in a free society", and much of what can, or can't be said (or written) is codified in law:

https://www2.gov.bc....m/antiracismfaq

 

Of course, in Dubow's case, he's just a ineffective politician with very little (or no) understanding of the job he's been elected into.

His heritage is completely irrelevant ... his words and actions speak volumes, and are all one needs to reference in order to pass judgement on his political undertaking.

 

 

Depending on the situation, the use of racist slurs may not be illegal under the Criminal Code of Canada. 

 



#8089 Spy Black

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:40 AM

Oh absolutely, some things are illegal, and some things are just a display of bad taste ... which is why I said "not quite" a right.

It all depends on the context.

 

My point was only that it would be incorrect to presume that it was part of ones "rights" as a Canadian citizen to simply say or write whatever they want regarding a persons skin colour or heritage ... and assuming you were 100% on solid legal ground in doing so.


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#8090 Mike K.

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:52 AM

We all have a right to do as we please, but we also have to accept the consequences for our actions.

 

I don't agree, for example, with bans on debates between ideologues who are not liked or accepted by some members of the public. Our society is not free if moderators pick and choose what we are allowed to hear for ourselves, or to give us the opportunity to challenge those whose views we disagree with.


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#8091 spanky123

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:59 AM

incorrect, lisa helps.  people have a "right" to say racists things.  that's part of living in a free society.  

 

Missing the point here. As much as I disagree with the Mayor's actions in most cases, she did absolutely nothing wrong by stating that Dubow's trip was inappropriate. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with bullying and exactly the same criticism any politician, of any background, was given. 

 

What happened, as often does in these cases, is that a handful of activists manufactured a crisis to benefit their cause and direct attention away from their own misbehavior. They point to some emails and tweets from anonymous sources which anyone (including themselves) could have created and said that was proof of racism related to the Mayor's comments. The Mayor was dumb enough to play into this by apologizing for her criticism of Dubow which is exactly what the activists wanted.


Edited by spanky123, 24 February 2021 - 08:08 AM.

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#8092 JimV

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 08:05 AM

The deflection to racism is a tried and true tactic of the left.  Everybody knows why Dubow is being criticized.  It’s not because he is black (after all, he got elected despite that putative handicap.) it’s because he violated the rules, was very evasive about it and is worse than useless as a councillor.


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#8093 sukika

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:44 PM

So does Dubow and company think that not being a racist means we don't treat people differently because of the colour of their skin, except for when we're supposed to treat them differently because of the colour of their skin?  


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#8094 JimV

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:54 PM

I think the answer to your question is yes.



#8095 Rob Randall

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 04:13 PM

Ben Isitt has filed a formal complaint with the CRTC regarding Adam Stirling's homeless camp comments on his C-FAX program.


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#8096 Rob Randall

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 04:14 PM

Stephen Andrew replies to the above complaint:

 

This appears to me nothing more than a poorly thought out publicity stunt.
As a former journalist, I know - and Ben should know if he’d been serious about the complaint. - this is the wrong agency to make a complaint to. It’s going nowhere.
Further - he’s complaining about “an opinion based talk show”.
It’s got nothing to do with whether We agree with Adam Stirling or not. It’s opinion.
So what do we do now - create a law banning opinion?!
Solution - complain to the correct body,
Ask for time for a rebuttal on Stirling’s show or the ability to submit an op-ed.... there are many options

 


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#8097 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 04:14 PM

Ben Isitt has filed a formal complaint with the CRTC regarding Adam Stirling's homeless camp comments on his C-FAX program.

 

welcome to 1:35pm.

 

j/k but so many things are wrong with this council that you need to check many threads to find all the crap that's going on.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 04:18 PM.

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#8098 Rob Randall

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 04:47 PM

Yep, there's probably ten threads that could have gone in.

 

I imagine any discussion about Isitt and Andrew butting heads would be better here than in the homeless thread. But yes, it's hard to check every thread, especially for the amount I get paid for participating here.


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#8099 Greg

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 05:30 PM

I'd like to see Isitt go on Stirling's show and discuss it with him. That seems like the appropriate response if he disagrees so strongly.


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#8100 Greg

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 05:32 PM

[...], it's hard to check every thread, especially for the amount I get paid for participating here.

 

Mike drops by and insults you periodically, what more could you ask for?


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