11779 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Quote:
The equity matter revolves around whether planners should serve the interests of
(a) the state, such as politicians and decision-makers; (b) capital, such as corporations,
landowners, and real estate developers; or © the public

I read this as each a, b , c all as as being factors one needs to consider in zoning rather than a + b vs c and not as a socialistic/comunistic perspective. There is always tension between different groups in society. Part of the issue around equity is who has the power and who makes or influences the decision making and who do the decisions benefit.

This equity focused framework suggests that there are elements perhaps missing or a lack of awareness in current zoning laws that should be discussed.
It suggests asking the question of who benefits from the suggested change or their rejection to the limited area sfh zoning change? Does the change increase equity? (One can argue what equity is)

Huh?

[kitty surprise]

Equity focused frameworks always include poinsettias. Something doesn't smell right.

[rjag]

Quote:

The equity matter revolves around whether planners should serve the interests of
(a) the state, such as politicians and decision-makers; (b) capital, such as corporations,
landowners, and real estate developers; or © the public

 

I read this as each a, b , c all as as being factors one needs to consider in zoning rather than a + b vs c and not as a socialistic/comunistic perspective. There is always tension between different groups in society. Part of the issue around equity is who has the power and who makes or influences the decision making and who do the decisions benefit.

 

This equity focused framework suggests that there are elements perhaps missing or a lack of awareness in current zoning laws that should be discussed.

It suggests asking the question of who benefits from the suggested change or their rejection to the limited area sfh zoning change? Does the change increase equity? (One can argue what equity is)

 

The one constant I have learned over all my years is that when Government comes up with ideas to 'fix' something, it more often than not suffers from unintended consequences that create a larger problem than the one they think they need to solve. 

 

This whole racialized and equity zoning etc has al the ingredients of a politicized pet project that will cost a bucketload of money and resolve SFA. Just like renters protections to solve high rents in the last 4 years, or taxing foreign owned homes or empty homes...how'd that 'solve' the housing crisis? Carbon taxes that somehow now go to general revenues yet we are all lectured to that the world is in greater danger and we must tax you all a lot more...how's that working out?

 

And as always the answer would be that the tax wasnt big enough or it didnt go far enough....its never simply just a failed experiment because as we all know...politicians and government employees never make mistakes and the science is always settled....  

[spanky123]

As others have pointed out, there is already a plan to add density to many underutilized corridors in the City. Fortin and earlier mayors have long had plans to provide incentives and bonus density to developers who built rental units. In fact there is probably enough sites that have been identified over the years to add 20 years worth of capacity without having to rezone a single family residence.

 

Reading the Mayor's and her supporter's viewpoints it seems that housing 'equity' has nothing to do with providing affordable access but instead it is about trying to punish those they feel are undeserving of a home. 

Edited by spanky123, 12 December 2021 - 09:15 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Reading the Mayor's and her supporter's viewpoints it seems that housing 'equity' has nothing to do with providing affordable access but instead it is about trying to punish those they feel are undeserving of a home. 

 

That's what socialism is.  Bringing people all down to the lowest common level.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 December 2021 - 09:20 AM.

[Mike K.]

Here’s a quick history lesson for you all.

It wasn’t that long ago that living in the City of Victoria was not an aspirational pursuit. Vic West, James Bay, Fairfield,
Fernwood, Burnside-Gorge and even Rockland(!), etc, were the bottom rungs of the ladder. The money went to Gordon Head, Oak Bay, Ten Mile Point, Broadmead and Cadboro Bay, etc, not the city-proper.

Right through the 90s there was a flight out of the city-proper and into the suburbs. The CoV was, generally speaking, an entry point for new home buyers, but that changed when retiring boomers recognized that any address on the south Island was a good address
compared to another winter in Winnipeg. And seeing land values skyrocket, the tweed curtain opened up and younger generations from within started snapping up whatever they could because they realized the mindset of the region was very tribal and unnecessarily looked down on urban neighbourhoods.

Fast forward 20 years and there’s this notion that our SFD neighbourhoods are these stodgy, ‘old money’ enclaves designed to keep people out. But they were no such thing just a short while ago, and it’s only in recent years that values shot up, and with that came this view that they harbour a specific class of person and must be broken up to right historical wrongs.

Mayor Helps would have arrived within the transition period, and she likely has no clue what it was like growing up in CoV neighbourhoods that truly were multi-ethnic, multi-cultural communities. And the housing was predominantly SFD. Today, the loudest voices calling for mass change to our neighbourhoods are not born or raised Victorians, they are relative newcomers who think they know better, or have preconceived notions about Victoria that do not jive with the lived experiences of the people raised here.

[Moderation]

As others have pointed out, there is already a plan to add density to many underutilized corridors in the City. Fortin and earlier mayors have long had plans to provide incentives and bonus density to developers who built rental units. In fact there is probably enough sites that have been identified over the years to add 20 years worth of capacity without having to rezone a single family residence.

 

Reading the Mayor's and her supporter's viewpoints it seems that housing 'equity' has nothing to do with providing affordable access but instead it is about trying to punish those they feel are undeserving of a home. 

 

Can you provide a link to the plans outlined above. It sounds like important and useful information that many people may not know including myself.   Does it also provide options for people who are looking for a first step purchase option in a mid density setting?

The so called missing middle is housing for families rental and for purchase between high rise apartments and single family homes with moderate density.

[Victoria Watcher]

Can you provide a link to the plans outlined above. It sounds like important and useful information that many people may not know including myself.  

 

Fill your boots:

 

https://www.victoria...unity-plan.html

 

Here is the land specific part:

 

https://www.victoria...unity-plan.html

 

You see, every single community already has a plan in place for where density should occur.  Find them by neighbourhood here:

 

https://www.victoria...blications.html

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 December 2021 - 09:42 AM.

[Nparker]

...Reading the Mayor's and her supporter's viewpoints it seems that housing 'equity' has nothing to do with providing affordable access but instead it is about trying to punish those they feel are undeserving of a home...

I am shocked!  said no one with even half a brain (I realize that excludes most of Her Worseship's and the TV voting base)

[spanky123]

Can you provide a link to the plans outlined above. It sounds like important and useful information that many people may not know including myself.   Does it also provide options for people who are looking for a first step purchase option in a mid density setting?

The so called missing middle is housing for families rental and for purchase between high rise apartments and single family homes with moderate density.

 

VW posted references but Fortin's plan specifically was to allow low/mid-rise mixed retail / residential throughout much of the Government and Douglas St corridors between Chatham and Bay as an example.  Most of that area is grossly underused.

[Mike K.]

And at the time nothing happened because institutional lenders were not lending money for rentals. It wasn’t until the mid-10s that lenders switched from favouring condos to favouring both, with added leverage for rentals.

Capital is never in a vacuum, and I think small-minded politicians forget that their biggest goals and aspirations can have the complete opposite effect when they leave the confines of city hall and are exposed to the open markets. Look at the capital drain out of California right now, it is undeniably a red alert for that state and will have profoundly damaging economic impacts for generations if wrongs aren’t righted, fast. Anyone who thinks Victoria is immune to a severe economic 180 because we have old buildings downtown and Langford doesn’t is losing sight of the forest for the trees.

[Mike K.]

The more I think about it, the more I question whether Councillor Loveday, who owns a SFD in Esquimalt and resides there, should be making SFD blanket zoning decisions in the CoV.

Councillor T-J lives in a SFD in Saanich, and may want to step aside as well. Councillor Alto, who used to reside in Saanich when first elected to council, owns real-estate in the CoV (a SFD?), but I believe now formally resides within the CoV. Can anyone confirm?

Furthermore, should councillors be making zoning decisions that impact them directly? Councillors Young, Isitt and Andrew also live in SFDs, and mayor Helps lives in a SFD as part of a relationship with a partner, or an ex-partner as landlord, is that right? That leaves us with less than a quorum to pass the vote, unless council can satisfactorily describe how a vote impacting their own real-estate holdings does not land as a conflict.

Am I over thinking this?

[Moderation]

Thanks for the links. I will fill my boots.

 

Mike K

likely has no clue what it was like growing up in CoV neighbourhoods that truly were multi-ethnic, multi-cultural communities. And the housing was predominantly SFD. Today, the loudest voices calling for mass change to our neighbourhoods are not born or raised Victorians, they are relative newcomers who think they know better, or have preconceived notions about Victoria that do not jive with the lived experiences of the people raised here.

 

OPINION: Victoria is a great city to live in. At the risk of getting off topic ( I have family that has lived in Victoria for 50 years.). Even today I find it difficult to say that Victoria is an example of a world multi-ethnic, multicultural community. Notice the word World. Friends who visit often comment on the limited visual diversity for example among the people on the street. Victoria has come a long way in 50 years and will continue to increase its world multi-cultural, multi-ethnic composition as all of Canada will. Do we expect lived experiences today to be the expected lived experiences 50 years from now?

 

An important point is.....The so called missing middle housing is housing for families rental and for purchase between high rise apartments and single family homes with moderate density. The limited area sfh zoning changes are a possible additional way of addressing this issue as well as the current  community hubs concept..  Agree or disagree with the idea, Weigh and debate the pros and cons. Thanks for the dialogue!

[Mike K.]

The more I think about it, the more I question whether Councillor Loveday, who owns a SFD in Esquimalt and resides there, should be making SFD blanket zoning decisions in the CoV.

Councillor T-J lives in a SFD in Saanich, and may want to step aside as well. Councillor Alto, who used to reside in Saanich when first elected to council, owns real-estate in the CoV (a SFD?), but I believe now formally resides within the CoV. Can anyone confirm?

Furthermore, should councillors be making zoning decisions that impact them directly? Councillors Young, Isitt and Andrew also live in SFDs, and mayor Helps lives in a SFD as part of a relationship with a partner, or an ex-partner as landlord, is that right? That leaves us with less than a quorum to pass the vote, unless council can satisfactorily describe how a vote impacting their own real-estate holdings does not land as a conflict.

Am I over thinking this?

To the post above, I can confirm Councillor Alto resides in Saanich.

[Mike K.]

I’m hearing the BCGEU has come out swinging hard and fast against the mayor’s planned rezoning. I don’t think its membership, whom many City of Victoria homeowners are, being cast as racist for not supporting a blanket rezoning was the right strategy for this plan. If I had to bet on its outcome, I’d say it’s done.

Council and mayoral candidates can include this into their platforms, and campaign accordingly. But it is clearly very damaging and divisive politics to attempt to ram this through in the final stretch of a political term by a mayor who has intimated no intentions to be around politically during the implementation phase of her agenda.

[Victoria Watcher]

 If I had to bet on its outcome, I’d say it’s done.

 

It will not get to a vote, if councillors expect another term.

[aastra]

To summarize:

 

-if you like a denser midrise/highrise format in areas where that format is a natural fit and makes good sense, then the folks in charge will do everything in their power to limit your options;

-if you like a less dense lowrise/SFD format in areas where that format is a natural fit and makes good sense, then the folks in charge will do everything in their power to limit your options;

 

The formula seems to be: whatever you want is what they will try to restrict, and whatever you don't want is what they will try to force on you.

[Victoria Watcher]

I propose a compromise:  Run the project in Fernwood for a 5-year pilot and see what happens.  If it's overwhelmingly successful, other neighbourhoods will beg to follow.

[Mike K.]

With no opportunity for feedback for three years, like the city engineered with the Picnic Point conversion of Clover Point.

[On the Level]

I mean really, does Helps ever stop to think beyond the blind ideology?  Labelling an entire segment of the population racist because they have life skills that are different than hers?

 

Has she ever stepped a foot in Slegg or Home Depot?  It's going to be lots of fun running a large compressor and air tools in an apartment.    Lets do some welding in the living room and set the building's fire alarms off.  Does this prove that welding is inherently racist?

 

These councilors can only relate with those that are like themselves.  Some would be completely useless and dependent on others (ironically the group they despise) if there was ever a disaster or something needed repair in their home.  

 

They are so willing to divide society and tear down community.