543 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

I think the lesson here might be "don't thwart the corruption of other politicians if you're not prepared to have your own corruption come to light".

 

I think that Plecas would have been in a better position if he had addressed the concerns directly with the staff and given them an opportunity to fix them. Instead it appears as though he allowed the abuses to continue while he ran his own little sting operation. He then went and made public criminal accusations against someone who has now been cleared of any wrongdoing. I fear that we will get no recovery against James and will be paying for the false allegations against Lenz. This could have been handled far more professionally with a better outcome.

[todd]

I find this unbelievable historically the clerk has always been a position of honour and truthfulness. https://www.cbc.ca/a...ths-i-saw-caddy

[lanforod]

I find this unbelievable historically the clerk has always been a position of honour and truthfulness. https://www.cbc.ca/a...ths-i-saw-caddy

 

Link is meant for the other thread...

[Torrontes]

I find this unbelievable historically the clerk has always been a position of honour and truthfulness. https://www.cbc.ca/a...ths-i-saw-caddy

 

It appears that a culture of obfuscation developed at the legislature, largely driven by personal greed and a sense of entitlement. Apparently all members, the speaker and the clerk became adherents.

 

"What can we get away with?", as distinct from "What is right and proper?", as "we are certainly worth it, and under-compensated for our contribution". It's a deadly sin.

 

Transparency and independent oversight are effective tools to combat such evil tendencies, but both were sadly lacking as regards legislature operations. Plecas didn't initiate his investigation out of a sense of moral outrage, but rather because he was denied the emoluments which he believed he rightly deserved, like having a hand-picked executive assistant (remind you of anyone?). In some respects, James has become the convenient scapegoat. His mistake was not being sufficiently generous to Plecas.

 

The sergeant-at-arms, a former police officer, was a witness to all these sordid goings on and remained silent. Really? He may not have been actively involved, but most dispassionate observers would have a hard time believing he is completely blameless.

[grantpalin]

Liberals offer MLA to replace Speaker amid new allegations

https://www.cbc.ca/n...tions-1.5156479

 

The kerfuffle continues. Speaker Plecas is apparently continuing his own investigation into legislative spending, now attempting to safeguard computer data.

 

 

The B.C. Liberals are calling for the replacement of Speaker Darryl Plecas, offering up one of their own amid accusations he's been copying legislature staff hard drives.

The party confirmed Thursday afternoon it's putting forward a Liberal MLA to act as Speaker.

"Last night, I was here in the building, and witnessed Mr. Plecas and [special adviser Alan] Mullen and a third person carrying a computer hard drive into his office from an unknown source," Liberal Leader Andrew Wilkinson told reporters.

"We are seeing a chaotic, aggressive approach to staff in this building ... the time has come to clear the air and serve the interests of British Columbians."

Premier John Horgan says he hasn't been officially approached by the Opposition to replace Plecas with a Liberal member, but his answer in any case would be still be no.

Installing a Liberal as Speaker would disadvantage the party, which currently holds 42 of 87 seats in the House. The Speaker only votes to break a tie.

Really interesting that the Liberals are willing to put forward one of their own to replace Plecas, and become more disadvantaged in the house. Also interesting that Plecas is keeping the spending investigation alive on his own initiative, despite Judge Mclachlan's report.

[VIResident]

Like the idea of ongoing investigations. 

Bring it on. Go Plecas Go! 

Log-splitters and big cash payouts, criminal and getting away with it.

Money laundering, a list of other criminal activities going unchecked.

No accountability. 

The criminal activity list, gov. is complicit, we all know it.  

The more protests I hear from the halls of the leg.... methinks protesting a bit too loudly.

Something in there, go find it for us Plecas, go find it and root it out.

 

(Be very cautious, Plecas could run in the next election and end up the Premier of BC.  People are sick, tired and broke - municipalities, CRD, & Provincial skyrocketing taxes and little to show for it, mixed with piles of bullshit, is drowning Jane, Joe and their 1 kid.  They are looking for someone to tell them they will fix it all and Jane & Joe, they will vote for the person who demonstrates they are.)

Edited by VIResident, 31 May 2019 - 04:55 AM.

[Sparky]

This could be fun. 

 

I wonder what made Kate Ryan-Lloyd upset to the point of tears. That's never good.

 

There is a growing sense of entitlement among our political theatres, both elected and appointed. Nice to see a little accountability mixed in every once in a while.

[Sparky]

I have to agree with the Liberals however, when they have stated that Plecas is on a witch-hunt.

Which person will be let go next?

[spanky123]

Like the idea of ongoing investigations. 

Bring it on. Go Plecas Go! 

Log-splitters and big cash payouts, criminal and getting away with it.

Money laundering, a list of other criminal activities going unchecked.

No accountability. 

The criminal activity list, gov. is complicit, we all know it.  

The more protests I hear from the halls of the leg.... methinks protesting a bit too loudly.

Something in there, go find it for us Plecas, go find it and root it out.

 

(Be very cautious, Plecas could run in the next election and end up the Premier of BC.  People are sick, tired and broke - municipalities, CRD, & Provincial skyrocketing taxes and little to show for it, mixed with piles of bullshit, is drowning Jane, Joe and their 1 kid.  They are looking for someone to tell them they will fix it all and Jane & Joe, they will vote for the person who demonstrates they are.)

 

First of all, I don't think that any investigation has concluded that what occurred at the leg was criminal in nature. If you read the report on money laundering then you would have noted that paying a contractor cash for work around your house is part of the real estate money laundering problem so we should all be careful where we point fingers!

 

We had people abusing the privileges that were provided them and there is no doubt about that. I think that Plecas was correct in raising the flag (although he signed off on some of what he later criticized), but running around and seizing staff hard drives in order to copy them seems like an overreach to me. If he is concerned about security then he should be having the IT staff establishing a leg wide data retention and backup policy. 

 

I find it amusing that when Saanich staff started installing software that could be used to spy on Atwell and other senior staff folks here were outraged. When Plecas copies entire hard drives of leg staff the same folks are cheering him on!

[VIResident]

First of all, I don't think that any investigation has concluded that what occurred at the leg was criminal in nature. If you read the report on money laundering then you would have noted that paying a contractor cash for work around your house is part of the real estate money laundering problem so we should all be careful where we point fingers!

 

We had people abusing the privileges that were provided them and there is no doubt about that. I think that Plecas was correct in raising the flag (although he signed off on some of what he later criticized), but running around and seizing staff hard drives in order to copy them seems like an overreach to me. If he is concerned about security then he should be having the IT staff establishing a leg wide data retention and backup policy. 

 

I find it amusing that when Saanich staff started installing software that could be used to spy on Atwell and other senior staff folks here were outraged. When Plecas copies entire hard drives of leg staff the same folks are cheering him on!

Poll

What happened at the leg. what Plecas uncovered, was criminal: Yes No

 

Copying harddrives is the same as installing software that logs every key a person types and unknown to the person who is typing: Yes No

[rjag]

 

 

I find it amusing that when Saanich staff started installing software that could be used to spy on Atwell and other senior staff folks here were outraged. When Plecas copies entire hard drives of leg staff the same folks are cheering him on!

 

Fair point!

 

Plecas is overstepping his boundaries here. If he has knowledge or concerns of nefarious activity then he is duty bound to alert the appropriate authority. We have the RCMP, the Auditor General and the Attorney General for that. He comes across as a bumbling Inspector Clueseau with his sidekick Cato/Mullen. 

 

Cloning Hard Drives is beyond the pale. All data is backed up offsite realtime and archived there is zero need to sieze and clone drives especially without a warrant. Further by doing what he is doing if there was evidence of criminality he has just given any competent defense lawyer a big christmas present regarding chain of custody, tampering etc.

 

Sorry I dont buy that the man is anything but a bumbling fool. Perhaps I'm wrong but I doubt it

[spanky123]

Poll

What happened at the leg. what Plecas uncovered, was criminal: Yes No

 

Copying harddrives is the same as installing software that logs every key a person types and unknown to the person who is typing: Yes No

 

If you copy someone's hard drive you have access to everything, no need to log keystrokes! If the RCMP file charges against anyone at the leg and they are convicted then we will be able to say that the actions were criminal.

 

What happened is exactly what I said would happen. There were few policies and those policies were ambiguous. We may argue all we want about whether someone should have known better or shown more respect for the public purse but you can't accuse someone of theft or abuse of power when there were no rules in the first place.

[spanky123]

Fair point!

 

Plecas is overstepping his boundaries here. If he has knowledge or concerns of nefarious activity then he is duty bound to alert the appropriate authority. We have the RCMP, the Auditor General and the Attorney General for that. He comes across as a bumbling Inspector Clueseau with his sidekick Cato/Mullen. 

 

Cloning Hard Drives is beyond the pale. All data is backed up offsite realtime and archived there is zero need to sieze and clone drives especially without a warrant. Further by doing what he is doing if there was evidence of criminality he has just given any competent defense lawyer a big christmas present regarding chain of custody, tampering etc.

 

Sorry I dont buy that the man is anything but a bumbling fool. Perhaps I'm wrong but I doubt it

 

The broader impact here is on the moral of staff. What Plecas is effectively doing is placing everyone under suspicion without evidence to back it up. I think that Plecas feels that the public spectacle he is creating has broad support but it isn't the way to professionally deal with people that you expect to have perform in their roles.Maybe one or two need to be replaced but does that justify placing everyone under suspicion?

 

Aside from the chain of custody issues the Rjag raises, what about the security of the data that Plecas now has. If I am an employee and a week from now my bank account is hacked was that a random incident or was the data that Plecas obtained not securely stored and now a 3rd party has all of my personal info as well?!

Edited by spanky123, 31 May 2019 - 07:06 AM.

[VIResident]

If you copy someone's hard drive you have access to everything, no need to log keystrokes! If the RCMP file charges against anyone at the leg and they are convicted then we will be able to say that the actions were criminal.

 

What happened is exactly what I said would happen. There were few policies and those policies were ambiguous. We may argue all we want about whether someone should have known better or shown more respect for the public purse but you can't accuse someone of theft or abuse of power when there were no rules in the first place.

 

Can, will and do.  Theft is theft.  

 

Premier is smart.  Today's headline - Times Colonist 

B.C. Liberals try to oust Plecas as Speaker citing ‘witch hunt,’ but premier backs him

Edited by VIResident, 31 May 2019 - 07:30 AM.

[lanforod]

If you copy someone's hard drive you have access to everything, no need to log keystrokes! If the RCMP file charges against anyone at the leg and they are convicted then we will be able to say that the actions were criminal.

 

What happened is exactly what I said would happen. There were few policies and those policies were ambiguous. We may argue all we want about whether someone should have known better or shown more respect for the public purse but you can't accuse someone of theft or abuse of power when there were no rules in the first place.

 

Not if the computer / drive was setup using best practices. Without IT support (with access to the keys), you'll just get an nice big encrypted mess of bytes.

[spanky123]

Not if the computer / drive was setup using best practices. Without IT support (with access to the keys), you'll just get an nice big encrypted mess of bytes.

 

You are right, if the file system was encrypted then copying the drive would have no value. What do you think the chances are that IT set the system up that way?! 

[jonny]

I could be wrong, but I don't think IT best practice is for everything to be backed up centrally. Lots of stuff is and can be still stored locally on a C:...

[rjag]

I could be wrong, but I don't think IT best practice is for everything to be backed up centrally. Lots of stuff is and can be still stored locally on a C:...

 

Even personal folders are ghosted...but the issue isnt so much the contents as his actions re :overstepping his position and abuse of position. If he has concerns he has recourse of the police, the AG and the Auditor General etc etc who will approach this in a professional manner re obtaining necessary legal approvals etc

[G-Man]

Yeah I can log onto my work account anywhere and have access to everything so no one that I know is storing stuff on a hard drive. The govt already puts tons of monitoring software on computers so not sure what would be gained here.

[rjag]

I think Plecas thinks hes in the middle of an Angela Lansbury story https://youtu.be/HfDRg8iSXPU