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#1 Wayne

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 07:58 AM

China has repeatedly called for Canada to correct its mistake and to release Meng or face unspecified consequences.

 

Now a third Canadian has been detained in China.

 

With Canada reacting on the US's request to arrest Meng and Trumps comments, it could appear that Canada is a tool for the US/China trade talks. Canada may have backed itself into a corner.

 

With no resolution is site, this could get out of hand before it ends.

 

http://www.msn.com/e...3p?ocid=DELLDHP

 

https://globalnews.c...uawei-timeline/



#2 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 08:29 AM

Canada’s best interests are in the hands of America, not China.

Canada is not a neutral party in this matter and our economic/military/social and cultural alignment is with the United States, and therefore so is our allegiance. All the rhetoric you read about in the press regarding relations with the US ‘because Trump...’ is immaterial to the military interests of Canadian forces and national security.


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#3 jonny

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 08:44 AM

Furthermore, Canada has an extradition treaty with the United States and had a legal obligation to arrest Meng when Canada was made aware that the Chinese executive  was passing through Vancouver and was wanted on extremely serious charges in the United States. 



#4 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 08:51 AM

That's right, and that's a fact that is absent from many discussions on this issue.

 

Last week CFAX had a guest on with Joe Perkins who was gushing about China. She was an expat once upon a time and said despite the detainment of Micheal Kovrig she said Canadians would have nothing to worry about and that this issue is related to ...yes, you guessed it, Trump and his agenda. Nevertheless, she blamed Kovrig for working in a non-profit that was not property registered and that she believed he knew what he was getting himself into. Despite Perkins making the argument that what was happening in China was ok, the guest insisted the Chinese are above petty retaliation.

 

Meanwhile we are now learning that two additional Canadians have been detained.


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#5 spanky123

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 08:55 AM

Furthermore, Canada has an extradition treaty with the United States and had a legal obligation to arrest Meng when Canada was made aware that the Chinese executive  was passing through Vancouver and was wanted on extremely serious charges in the United States. 

 

I think that the charges against Huawei are suspect in the first place and the fact that the CFO is being charged is contrary to every other example that I can think of when a US or EU company has been implicated in trade violations or other criminal acts for that matter. 

 

I think that the two broader issues are competition for the 5G market and the fact that China will soon overtake the US in GDP.



#6 jonny

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:05 AM

Is Meng being used as a pawn by the US? Probably.The fact remains we have an extradition treaty with the USA and these actions were initiated by the US Justice Department. Further, as Mike pointed out, at the end of the day we will always side with the USA over China.  

 

I have friends who live in China who are in absolute denial about what China really is and how Chinese business works. Corruption, bribery, collusion, lying, misleading and cheating, cheating, cheating. 

 

Would it be surprising to find out that a Chinese company was selling to the Iranians or selling their phones through their quasi state owned smartphone company infected with Chinese government spyware? Frankly, it would be surprising if this wasn't the case. We know the Chinese have spies in North America. There are undoubtedly many in Victoria. 

 

I have an associate who worked for a Chinese company that was illegally importing Chinese steel in violation of US steel tariffs. The Chinese are shady, shady, shady. There is no "law" in China. It's all about who you know and whose palms you can grease.



#7 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:13 AM

Victorians sometimes forget that we have a major military base in our backyard and espionage is a reality in our community.

One of the biggest security concerns is technology made in China. With offshore production of most technical gadgets the threat of rogue software or hardware is very real and is taken very seriously by the armed forces. In fact the last gift Canadian forces members received when Chinese vessels visited the region included USB sticks, lol. They were all rounded up and destroyed.
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#8 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:17 AM

Adding to jonny’s point, a business colleague who moved from Europe to Beijing recently lost his company. He was literally pushed aside and had no recourse. Oftentimes assets are seized by the state without warning or recourse, and it doesn’t matter if you’re a foreigner or a local. If you end up with the short stick you’re in trouble. This is why so many Chinese investors buy Canadian assets irrespective of price as having a $20 million investment depreciate to $15 million is still a heck of a better move than losing all of your money. A lot of these don’t care about the price, they just want in. That’s a big reason behind Vancouver’s rise in real-estate values.
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#9 Wayne

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:23 AM

Understanding that Canada has an extradition treaty with the United States.

How is Meng considered a fugitive in the eyes of the Canadian Government? Has she been charged or convicted in the US?

Are all International Company CEOs that do not abide by the US sanctions considered fugitives?

https://www.oas.org/...t-can-usa4.html

#10 Cassidy

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:23 AM

Anybody who believes that we have even 10% of the facts in the Canadian arrests in China is delusional.

 

The Chinese aren't stupid, and it doesn't make much political sense to be arresting and endless string of Canadians out of spite ... so at least in equal parts, it's just as likely the Canadian chaps broke some sort of Chinese law as is the likelihood that they're totally innocent and sitting in jail as "payback" for the Canadian arrest of Meng.


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#11 spanky123

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:24 AM

^ In China you cannot own real estate, you just lease the land from the Government. That and concerns about currency devaluation drive foreign investment by individuals.



#12 VIResident

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:39 AM

China has repeatedly called for Canada to correct its mistake and to release Meng or face unspecified consequences.

 

Now a third Canadian has been detained in China.

 

With Canada reacting on the US's request to arrest Meng and Trumps comments, it could appear that Canada is a tool for the US/China trade talks. Canada may have backed itself into a corner.

 

With no resolution is site, this could get out of hand before it ends.

 

http://www.msn.com/e...3p?ocid=DELLDHP

 

https://globalnews.c...uawei-timeline/

 

"With no resolution is site, this could get out of hand before it ends."

 

From where I sit, it is currently out of hand. 



#13 Cassidy

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:49 AM

Break the law, or even get a bit too close to the line in a country like China or Saudi Arabia ... and there's a pretty good chance you're going to run afoul of law enforcement and wind up in the Clink (and the Clink in China and Saudi ain't anywhere near as comfy as the Clink might be in Canada).

 

Globalization of absolutely everything tends to cause folks to believe that they're just as safe and secure in Beijing as they are in Vancouver ... which is utter folly in terms of ones own personal safety.

 

The one Canadian guy arrested arranges tours to North Korea as his primary business ... no potential for running afoul of Chinese authorities doing that is there? (of course there is!)


Edited by Cassidy, 19 December 2018 - 09:50 AM.


#14 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:55 AM

Furthermore, folks who do have business ties to China, or who are involved with organizations in China, wouldn't dare speak negatively of the country out of fear that they won't be permitted to return, won't be able to fully perform their duties while in China or might face a serious repercussion.


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#15 spanky123

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 10:04 AM

Understanding that Canada has an extradition treaty with the United States.

How is Meng considered a fugitive in the eyes of the Canadian Government? Has she been charged or convicted in the US?

Are all International Company CEOs that do not abide by the US sanctions considered fugitives?

https://www.oas.org/...t-can-usa4.html

 

Exactly right. Were the CFO's of Barclay's, JPMorgan, Citi, HSBC, Wells etc ,etc  arrested after their companies were implicated in fraud, money laundering, corruption, etc, etc. Of course not, their shareholders paid a fine and the execs all got off scott free.



#16 Matt R.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:17 AM

Interesting read a friend posted yesterday. Reputable source.

https://www.nytimes....rced-labor.html

Matt.

#17 dasmo

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:48 AM

This is an excellent example of being between a rock and a hard place.... We have no choice but to side with the US and let them put us in front as China punches us in the face.... 



#18 Mike K.

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:55 AM

It’s more like China’s trying to save face.

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#19 Mattjvd

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 12:12 PM

Understanding that Canada has an extradition treaty with the United States.

How is Meng considered a fugitive in the eyes of the Canadian Government? Has she been charged or convicted in the US?

Are all International Company CEOs that do not abide by the US sanctions considered fugitives?

https://www.oas.org/...t-can-usa4.html

Yes, charges of conspiracy to defraud financial institutions and an arrest warrant were filed in New York State court. Police and boarder officials in Vancouver were alerted of an incoming passenger with an arrest warrant, so she was detained, pending extradition. 


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#20 AllseeingEye

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 07:21 PM

A murky subject and one that is difficult to unravel; the CAF completely aside the Five Eyes intelligence group (US/UK/Canada/Australia/NZ) have been concerned about Huawei for nearly a decade and have been very vocal on the subject.

 

And frankly Huawei corporate protestations of innocence re: technical back doors into their network routing and switching gear fall a little short when Chinese law clearly stipulates that the firm must comply if asked (that is to say it is "ordered") to by the central government. In that regard it is known to have close ties to the Chinese MSS (Ministry of State Security) which is involved in everything from censoring the internet in China to economic espionage. To put the subject into perspective with over 100,000 personnel in and outside of China this single Chinese state spy agency - and of course there are several others - is bigger than the entire Canadian Armed Forces.....

 

That all said we know the US has included "little technological surprises" in some of its own exports in the past, namely with AT&T telephone switching gear in the 1970's, and you'd have to be more than a little on the naive side to think that large tech companies in other nations haven't done likewise. I'm thinking specifically here of AT&T and Verizon in the US, Deutsche Telekom, Telefonica, Nippon Telephone and Telegraph and - yeah - China Telecom.

 

Add in some Trump posturing -:and remember US President's when under domestic pressure, I'm thinking primarily of the Mueller investigation now - will almost always attempt to direct the attention of the 'murrican electorate outward toward foreign threats or perceived threats, and a rising China is as good as any right now. Consider all of that and you get essentially what we have today. Lots of international misdirection, disinformation and murkiness....


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