652 replies to this topic

[Sparky]

Q How many people attend your meetings?

A. What meetings?

[zoomer]

In today’s age of smart phones, social media, and instant polling why do we pretend that a resident’s association evenly remotely represents the wishes of a neighbourhood? Not discounting other good work they may do, so let’s leave it at that. Instead city residents who are interested in being polled for feedback can register online and we can do very basic polling on specific questions (because anything more cost a fortune to conduct). Yes, not as scientific as true random sampling, but that comes with additional costs. “Do you want to see the city purchase more vacant lots for community gardens?” “Are you in favour of the XYZ proposal at Easy Street?” Links can be provided to a ‘one page’ developer overview, a ‘one page’ planning department overview and perspective and people can be advised to search out additional information and perspectives if they wish before responding. Not a vote, but a better indicator than a resident’s association letter.

[Rob Randall]

One of my failures as Chair of the DRA was not getting enough residents involved. It always seemed like the same half dozen people. I loved them and they were smart and did great work but I never felt we were even close to representing the will of the community at large unless it was an immediate hot-button topic that affected immediate neighbours. 

[zoomer]

/\ Which is why it’s important to note the good work some of the associations do - the Fernwood CA being a good example as well. As far as getting more residents involved, I think there is a very low ceiling no matter how hard you try Rob - 30 active members would be amazing, but in terms of being a representative voice on issues, or course it couldn’t be.

Now for the quote from Jon Stovell:

“Over the past 10-plus years, we drafted a dozen proposals — two in the past year alone — at a cost to us of more than $1 million.”

A significant amount of this time and cost falls at the feet of Reliance Properties. To be honest Jon, so many of those early proposals were awful; they looked like an ordinary apartment block dropped in a prime location. No matter the limitations, site challenges and conflicting city messaging it didn’t have to take 8 years for solid proposals to emerge.

That being said, I think Reliance has done a great job on this final proposal and I will be sending a letter in support. I wish you and Reliance nothing but the best with Northern Junk and for future proposals on the many other land holdings you have in Victoria.

[Rob Randall]

Letter to City Hall

 

My name is Robert Randall, a Saanich resident. and I am speaking in a personal capacity. I am a former Downtown resident and current Downtown worker and I am writing in support of the current proposal for 1314 Wharf.

 

It was April of 2010, over 11 years ago, when I met with the developer in my former role with the Downtown Residents' Association and was shown their plans for the site. Since my term as Chair ended and I moved to Saanich I continued to follow the saga as various massings were presented and rejected. There have been at least seven or eight redesigns and if I recall correctly my favourites were two, four and six, while three was pretty good and five wasn't bad either and the current design seems to me to meet the needs the City and residents asked for.  I hope I don't have to tell my yet-to-be-born grandchildren design thirty-seven was pretty good, too.

 

The current proposal is attractive and conforms to the OCP keeping in mind that document is somewhat dated and open to wide variations in interpretation. Keeping the buildings as is with no additional construction was never intended at the time this property was marketed with the blessing of the City.

 

It was always anticipated additional density would be built on the site in a way that respected the unique warehouses. Designs featuring adjacent new construction were proposed and rejected on several occasions.

 

I conclude the current proposal is the best compromise and responds favourably to the concerns expressed by the City and residents over the years. I urge Council to vote yes on this proposal.

 

Regards,

Robert Randall
Former Important Downtown Person

[Rob Randall]

The DRA says the change in property was the developer's choice; Reliance says the adjacent land was taken off the table as an option to build on. Who's right.

[Casual Kev]

The average resident is either working 9-5 shifts or at/studying for school. Most of the rest gets spent on family, friends, church, sports and whatnot. Only a small amount of time is dedicated to active civic participations. Municipal affairs get less publicity than either provincial or federal politics by a long shot, and even within cities time is typically spent on activism or hot-button issues. There's simply no time left for the average resident to evaluate the myriads of building proposals that come through every year. And frankly, these decisions need to operate from the principle that it's private property that's being developed on - the onus should be on council and nay-sayers in community associations to provide compelling reasons as to why something can't get built, not for builders to move heaven and earth to cater to ridiculous and mercurial expectations.  

[Mike K.]

^yup, that's good.

[Victoria Watcher]

The average resident is either working 9-5 shifts or at/studying for school. Most of the rest gets spent on family, friends, church, sports and whatnot. Only a small amount of time is dedicated to active civic participations. Municipal affairs get less publicity than either provincial or federal politics by a long shot, and even within cities time is typically spent on activism or hot-button issues. There's simply no time left for the average resident to evaluate the myriads of building proposals that come through every year. And frankly, these decisions need to operate from the principle that it's private property that's being developed on - the onus should be on council and nay-sayers in community associations to provide compelling reasons as to why something can't get built, not for builders to move heaven and earth to cater to ridiculous and mercurial expectations.

this is exactly right.

[Rob Randall]

At least in Fairfield and James Bay there's a strong movement to preserve single-family dwellings and fend off high-density condo invasions which drives membership. But Downtown residents don't really care; they're basically OK with development in general and certainly don't care whether the condo a few blocks away conforms to a vaguely-worded OCP or has a FSR of 4.8:1 versus 5.2:1. Unless they have a personal interest in urban planning issues and architecture they're just not interested.

[Mike K.]

There’s a large movement to label single family dwellings elitist, classist and privileged in those communities in order to infuse higher densities among them. Downtown fighting new density is awkward, in light of the pressures being forced onto single-family-dwelling neighbourhoods through City Hall’s pursuit of doing away with council involvement.

[Greg]

I assume most downtown residents want to live in a vibrant and safe downtown, and would like to see businesses which support residents (as opposed to mainly tourists) continue to grow. And more residents is the obvious path to that happening. That's why the DRA is so puzzling to me.

[Mike K.]

Yes, that’s the whole reason for living there, right? Fighting density and getting bogged down in the minutiae of zoning limits and variance requests goes against the spirit of creating a bumpin’ downtown.

Could it be that a lot of older residents in downtown bought into that market because there have traditionally been so few options outside of that market? Now that the West Shore, Esquimalt and Saanich condo markets are growing quickly with wider spectrum of choice (entry level to high end) we might start to see the pressure on downtown ease as a melting pot for all condo buyers. It’s tough to manage the desires of a couple from small town Sask looking forward to retirement in Victoria with a young couple in the prime of their life who work and play downtown as next door neighbours on the 15th floor.

[G-Man]

This is at council right now. Fingers crossed for an approval.

[Rob Randall]

https://crd.ca.grani...8&event_id=1512

[Rob Randall]

A couple of people giving Stovell grief for not pulling the trigger on the previously approved design and instead trying to get permission for this new-atop-old design.

[Rob Randall]

Helps chastising the speakers for praising/criticizing the developer instead of the proposal.

 

Still time to call in.

[Rob Randall]

Resident accusing the DRA of editorializing and skewing the community meeting report against the project.

[Rob Randall]

Mary Doody Jones! That's a blast from the past. 

[G-Man]

I know right. Like the good old times!