Jump to content

      



























APPROVED
Harris Green Village, tower 1
Uses: rental, commercial
Address: 900-block of Yates Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 32
Harris Green Village, tower 1 is a proposal for a 32-storey mixed-use purpose-built rental tower with ground f... (view full profile)
Learn more about Harris Green Village, tower 1 on Citified.ca
Photo

[Harris Green] Harris Green Village & Harris Victoria Chrysler/Dodge redevelopment | Multi-phased; mixed-use | Proposed


  • Please log in to reply
1565 replies to this topic

#121 jonny

jonny
  • Member
  • 9,211 posts

Posted 31 May 2019 - 09:02 PM

When somebody compares the Atrium to a prison, credibility is definitely in question.
  • Rob Randall and tedward like this

#122 DustMagnet

DustMagnet
  • Member
  • 1,508 posts
  • LocationView Royal

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:06 AM

Well, you don't know where they've been incarcerated.  Perhaps it was quite nice.


  • thundergun likes this

#123 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:10 AM

Here's another example from Vancouver that's really good...


Um that's the Hudson in Victoria

#124 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:11 AM

Not at all. Ideally it would end up being a better neighbourhood hub than it is right now.


Do you live here? Because it certainly is. You should check it out sometime.

#125 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:26 AM

Also go inside the Atrium because you are supposed to. It is a public space like no other in the city. I assure you again it is one of the most animated spaces in the City. And that anyone can go in and have a seat use your computer is truly amazing. I do it all the time.

 
I have gone inside the Atrium. It's vacant space. The only seating is two wooden UFO-shaped sculptures that meet the definition of hostile design. The two people passing though on their way to BC Ferries offices isn't what I'd call animated. It's not for me, but I'm glad you like it.
 

I have never thought to sit next to the parking lot at HGV never, not once.


But many others do, which you'd know if you've been to HGV.

I'm not sure why everyone is so defensive about HGV being a good (albeit unattractive) place. Only one person on this forum has actually claimed to have seen it in person, and no one has indicated they live in HG. While it may be ugly, I also don't understand why people are making the case for tearing it down (which I support) but comparing it to demonstrably worse examples of architecture in Victoria. There are many many other examples of commercial villages that could be used, but for a forum that claims to be full of people knowledgeable about architecture, only one person has used a reasonable comparison.

Why is it impossible to recognize that 1) many people use HGV now, 2) it provides a wide range of important services, and 3) people use HGV now. So far all I've seen is people denying these realities for no clear purpose. Why is this so hard to admit? It's fine if you think it's ugly, but go count the number of people at the Atrium (those four people walking past Habit in the screenshot provided) and the people at HGV and get back to me.

Can someone explain this to me in a non-condescending way? I'd love to have a conversation about making HGV great again - which is why I'm here - but I've yet to hear anyone comment from a Victorian (instead of developer) perspective. My views aren't unusual - I raised it at dinner with friends yesterday, and everyone expressed love for HGV as a destination and place to spend leisure time. Yes, my friends indicated that they go to HGV to hang out. VV doesn't have to accept that, but I guess that's why we end up with things like the Atrium.

Edited by victorian, 01 June 2019 - 09:34 AM.


#126 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:32 AM

When somebody compares the Atrium to a prison, credibility is definitely in question.


When someone makes ad hominem arguments, credibility is definitely in question. Not sure why you're taking this personally. I hope you are able to accept that other people have legitimate opinions easier elsewhere in your life.

Edited by victorian, 01 June 2019 - 09:36 AM.

  • RoadRunner likes this

#127 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:55 AM

Also go inside the Atrium because you are supposed to. It is a public space like no other in the city. I assure you again it is one of the most animated spaces in the City.

I'm curious about the appeal of private indoor property being considered public space.
Can a private property raised slightly above street level with always-closed doors be considered "public space"? Ipersonally consider this inferior to outdoor spaces, but I'm curious about others' thoughts.

The Atrium space is much more comparable to St. Andrew Square, which is another private, closed, indoor space that has very little traffic. Is this the ideal vision for HGV?

Edited by victorian, 01 June 2019 - 10:10 AM.


#128 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 40,407 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:06 AM

All of the "public" space at HGV is actually on private property.



#129 victorian

victorian
  • Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationHarris Green

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:10 AM

All of the "public" space at HGV is actually on private property.

Yes, but it's accessible. No locking doors, visible from the street, etc

#130 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:19 AM

 

Um that's the Hudson in Victoria

 

Whoops. Sorry. I know we're not supposed to make reference to good things elsewhere in Victoria. My bad.


  • Nparker likes this

#131 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:28 AM

 

Why is it impossible to recognize that 1) many people use HGV now, 2) it provides a wide range of important services, and 3) people use HGV now. So far all I've seen is people denying these realities for no clear purpose. Why is this so hard to admit?

 

Do you remember Town and Country? Many people used it, it provided a wide range of important services. It was eventually replaced by Uptown. Would we accuse the people who prefer Uptown of denying the realities of Town and Country? I hope not. That's a rather serious accusation.

 

Why is it so hard for you to admit that the strip mall format doesn't belong in downtown Victoria and that a new development could provide a wider range of important services to even more people? Are you trying to prevent more people from accessing a wider range of important services? I hope not. That's not very nice.


  • Nparker likes this

#132 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:39 AM

 

I'd love to have a conversation about making HGV great again - which is why I'm here - but I've yet to hear anyone comment from a Victorian (instead of developer) perspective. My views aren't unusual - I raised it at dinner with friends yesterday, and everyone expressed love for HGV as a destination and place to spend leisure time.

 

Harris Green Village was never great, I'm not sure what you're referring to. It was always an out-of-place strip mall. But there is an opportunity here to make it great for the first time.

 

Where are you hearing all of these developer perspectives? Try staying away from that stuff and participate more in the discussions on this board. You'll learn all kinds of things and be exposed to all kinds of different perspectives.

 

If your friends really do regard the strip mall as a destination and a great place to spend leisure time then that's great. Now just imagine if the strip mall was replaced by something much better. After the first hour your friends wouldn't even be able to remember what the strip mall was like.



#133 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:43 AM

Wasn't it G-Man who used to love the little shack on the corner of Yates and Blanshard? Isn't that exactly what he used to say? That it was a destination, a place to spend leisure time? And yet here he is now, finally admitting that the Atrium building is superior to the little shack both as a destination and as a place to spend leisure time. People can change.*

 

*My memory might be faulty, it might not have been G-Man, but you get my point



#134 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 16,310 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:24 AM

Atrium and HGV both have diagonal entries designed to draw pedestrians in. They both have over a dozen major ground floor retail tenants although London Drugs is unmatched as a major anchor.

 

One approach to redevelopment would be to ensure the new project has as many or more retail tenants as today, so there is no net loss of things to do and see.

 

The other approach would be to make it all residential except on the Yates frontage, forcing retail to existing main streets. The intent would be to make Harris Green primarily a residential neighbourhood but with a strong commercial presence on the main arteries of Yates and Fort.


  • aastra, Nparker and victorian like this

#135 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:37 AM

victorian, your passion for defending Harris Green's modern strip mall is very evident. How would you say your passion for defending this strip mall compared to your passion for defending the old Catholic school building on the corner of Pandora and Vancouver?

 

One of the neighbourhood's defining old character buildings facing outright demolition and replacement with a completely different use, versus a modern shopping centre facing replacement by a new shopping centre. Would you say you were one hundred times more upset about the old Catholic school building? Or would you say you were more upset than that?

 

You care so much about the Harris Green neighbourhood, about its architecture and its character, so it follows that you must have been very, very, very upset. I wouldn't mind revisiting some of your posts about it on this board, if you can please direct me to them. Or maybe you were so extremely upset about it that you didn't post anything at all? If so, I would certainly understand that.

 

I ask because sometimes Victorians can be inscrutably selective re: the buildings they'll defend as versus the buildings they won't care one bit about defending. Sometimes Victorians can be inscrutably selective re: the aspects of a neighbourhood that they'll want to preserve as versus the aspects of a neighbourhood that they won't care one bit about preserving. So it's always refreshing to find someone who isn't so inscrutably selective, and to hear their take on things.



#136 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:51 AM

 

One approach to redevelopment would be to ensure the new project has as many or more retail tenants as today, so there is no net loss of things to do and see.

 

If people like the small storefronts in the strip mall then the new development should have some small storefronts, too. Can a new shopping centre do small storefronts as well or better than an old strip mall can do them? I'd say Uptown provides an answer to that question.

 

If people like the outdoor aspect of the strip mall then the new development should have outdoor space, too. Can a new shopping centre do outdoor spaces as well or better than an old strip mall can do them? I'd say Uptown provides an answer to that question.

 

If people like the trees and benches facing Yates then the new development should have trees and benches, and a nice square and fountains, too.

 

If people like surface parking in the heart of downtown then deal with all parking going underground. Better late than never to deal with it. It will make the entire experience of the shopping centre that much more pleasant. Uptown provides an answer yet again: imagine if the main street at Uptown didn't allow cars on it.


  • victorian likes this

#137 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,650 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:57 AM

If people like the flow through the strip mall then how about keeping the flow basically the same, but better? Have a nice square in the middle along Yates, and have a pedestrians-only street come up from near the View/Vancouver corner and arc through and back again to near the View/Quadra corner.


  • victorian likes this

#138 Jackerbie

Jackerbie
  • Member
  • 3,776 posts
  • LocationRichmond, BC

Posted 01 June 2019 - 12:45 PM

Atrium and HGV both have diagonal entries designed to draw pedestrians in. They both have over a dozen major ground floor retail tenants although London Drugs is unmatched as a major anchor.

 

One approach to redevelopment would be to ensure the new project has as many or more retail tenants as today, so there is no net loss of things to do and see.

 

The other approach would be to make it all residential except on the Yates frontage, forcing retail to existing main streets. The intent would be to make Harris Green primarily a residential neighbourhood but with a strong commercial presence on the main arteries of Yates and Fort.

 

Someone has read the Downtown Core Area Plan  ;)

 

Given that these guys have the entire block, they should be able to execute the vision of the DCAP which calls for strong commercial presence along Yates, a significant urban plaza, and residential uses on View. I believe that they'd be able to get up to 5.5 FSR through rezoning...



#139 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,800 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 12:54 PM

I miss that old shack at Yates and Blanshard. I actually do miss the old BC Tel building but I also like the Atrium a lot. I wasn't however arguing for a similar design to replace HGV just that it is a really nice building. 

 

 

 

I have gone inside the Atrium. It's vacant space. The only seating is two wooden UFO-shaped sculptures that meet the definition of hostile design. The two people passing though on their way to BC Ferries offices isn't what I'd call animated. It's not for me, but I'm glad you like it.

 

So you haven't really been in there in the last couple of years then or you would know that they have but in two massive long tables with chairs that people sit and chat at all the time. It really is a vibrant space. 

 

 

 

 - but I've yet to hear anyone comment from a Victorian (instead of developer) perspective. 

 

You have quoted a couple of my comments so you have heard a Victorian. Actually quite a few. Here is my article on HGV from 2016

 

https://www.sidewalk...rq=harris green


Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#140 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,800 posts

Posted 01 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

And just to show that I do think about Harris Green a fair bit, here are a couple more. 

 

https://www.sidewalk...rq=harris green

 

https://www.sidewalk...rq=harris green

 

https://www.sidewalk...rq=harris green

 

https://www.sidewalk...rq=harris green


Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users