2241 replies to this topic

[pontcanna]

The fire chief was quoted as saying "we spend hundreds of thousands on chain link fencing to keep rocks from falling on the highway (on the Hat) but I've never seen a rock hit a car. But I've been cutting people out of cars for a decade in a half after head on collisions."

[Mike K.]

What has the factor this time? Speed and inattention?

[sebberry]

What has the factor this time? Speed and inattention?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

I think they reported last night that they believed it to be due to a medical condition.

[eseedhouse]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

I heard the emergency calls for this one on the scanner while walking over to Thrifty's. Apparently three people had to be cut out of one car and one of them was having breathing problems. I just checked the TC story online and I see there was a death.

[sebberry]

I heard the emergency calls for this one on the scanner while walking over to Thrifty's. Apparently three people had to be cut out of one car and one of them was having breathing problems. I just checked the TC story online and I see there was a death.

Yes, you are correct. It is believed that the deceased suffered an aneurysm before crashing into the second vehicle

[Phil McAvity]

What has the factor this time? Speed and inattention?

Matt Damon!!

[Holden West]

Jack Knox says barriers are the only realistic solution:

Thursday morning, I drove up the Malahat hill where Wednesday night's fatal crash happened.

The Trans-Canada is two lanes up and one down in the steep stretch between the Split Rock viewpoint and the Bamberton cut-off. I was doing 100 in an 80 zone, but the traffic to my left blew past like I was standing still. One Dodge 4x4 rode the rear of a Toyota so hard that it spooked the car into a panicky lurch over to the right-hand lane.

[splashflash]

Jack Knox says barriers are the only realistic solution:

Livolsi points out that the B.C. government has made improvements to the Malahat, including more reflective paint markings, some median work on the Tunnel Hill and Goldstream Park areas and putting in rumble strips. While many are calling for a median along the entire corridor, he said that’s not a feasible option.
“You can’t just place median everywhere,” he said. “You have to consider the road width… because once you put a median barrier in there, you’re narrowing down the lanes and you create other complications.”
Access for emergency vehicles and local residents is also a factor before deciding to install medians.

The road wouldn't close near as often if it were upgraded to two lanes in each direction divided by a median. Head-on collisions are the major reason for this stretch of road closing.

The Liberals have found money for the Trans-Canada east of Kamloops and for the 97 in the Cariboo and Okanagan, but have done nothing for the Trans-Canada on the Island.

[sebberry]

I posted earlier that a cable barrier might work. It's narrower than the double-yellow lines down the middle of the road.

Also, while it won't physically prevent a car from crossing the center line, those plastic pilons like the ones near Save-on-foods on Blanshard would have a psychological effect on drivers that would cause them to drive a little further away from the center line.

[Lorenzo]

I posted earlier that a cable barrier might work. It's narrower than the double-yellow lines down the middle of the road.

Ah, cable barrier. Just watch for flying decapitated motorcyclist body parts.

[splashflash]

Sufficient clearance between the barrier, whether cable or concrete, and lane would be required. I would think that the MOT would have considered this option.

[UrbanRail]

The road wouldn't close near as often if it were upgraded to two lanes in each direction divided by a median. Head-on collisions are the major reason for this stretch of road closing.

You wouldn't be able to do that, as the road borders the Goldstream River on one side and there are shear rock walls on the other. Messing around through here would be a no no, as this is a ecological sensitive zone.

A median would make sense, as well as reducing the speed limit. Plus promoting commuter rail on the E&N. Weather and poor driving are the biggest factors in many of these accidents, not the Malahat itself.

The Liberals have found money for the Trans-Canada east of Kamloops and for the 97 in the Cariboo and Okanagan, but have done nothing for the Trans-Canada on the Island.

I think because (correct me if I am wrong) those are in liberal ridings.

[sebberry]

A median would make sense, as well as reducing the speed limit.

The speed limit isn't a problem on the Malahat. I think two out of the last three MVAs on the 'hat were due to an accute medical condition, another driver was drunk, another was some guy fleeing in a stolen car...

In fact when you have people driving aggressivelt up there it's often because some twit has decided that because the speed limit is 70kph, they'll do 70kph in the left lane. Then moan about it when someone in a lifted 4x4 (probably registered to someone in Langford ) has crashed through the back of their car.

[splashflash]

[QUOTE][quote name='UrbanRail']You wouldn't be able to do that, as the road borders the Goldstream River on one side and there are shear rock walls on the other. Messing around through here would be a no no, as this is a ecological sensitive zone.

A median would make sense, as well as reducing the speed limit. Plus promoting commuter rail on the E&N.[/QUOTE]


Actually, the MOT has a study prepared in 2007 (http://www.th.gov.bc...eport/index.htm) with options we have both mentioned, and long-distance buses were deemed the best value-for-money. And that option has been partly done already by BC Transit.

Both transit modes fared poorly in diversion of tranffic, and rail was able to divert only up to 4% of traffic though the costs were quite high. The transit options would not come anywhere near alleviating the highway of its projected capacity issues, unfortunately.

But what about tolling to suppress traffic? This is not a particularly favourable option if the road itself were not improved.

One of the options H5 looks at rerouting the whole highway onto the E& N, but finds that option wanting because the rail line is not 60 to 80 metres wide, but 30.5 metres wide. What if the right of way was converted to a south-bound set of lanes and the existing road converted to north-bound lanes? Was that option deliberately not examined? Am I missing something? A 60 to 80 metre wide road of course would be much more costly than just slightly widening and paving the rail bed. The cost would probably be $100 million.

Tolls would be implemented, as they should province-wide on new highways.

[UrbanRail]

[quote name='splashflash'][QUOTE]


Actually, the MOT has a study prepared in 2007 (http://www.th.gov.bc...eport/index.htm) with options we have both mentioned, and long-distance buses were deemed the best value-for-money. And that option has been partly done already by BC Transit.

Both transit modes fared poorly in diversion of tranffic, and rail was able to divert only up to 4% of traffic though the costs were quite high. The transit options would not come anywhere near alleviating the highway of its projected capacity issues, unfortunately.

But what about tolling to suppress traffic? This is not a particularly favourable option if the road itself were not improved.

One of the options H5 looks at rerouting the whole highway onto the E& N, but finds that option wanting because the rail line is not 60 to 80 metres wide, but 30.5 metres wide. What if the right of way was converted to a south-bound set of lanes and the existing road converted to north-bound lanes? Was that option deliberately not examined? Am I missing something? A 60 to 80 metre wide road of course would be much more costly than just slightly widening and paving the rail bed. The cost would probably be $100 million.

Tolls would be implemented, as they should province-wide on new highways.[/QUOTE]

I have read the study and find it pointless. As it suggested using transit buses along the same stretch of hwy that always gets shut down. The study was totally bias towards the car and all of the highway options had very negative impacts on Goldstream Park. Case in point, the oil tanker truck that crashed and spilled most of its contents into the river, which they say will take years to reverse the damage, if it can.

I will not support the conversion of the rail corridor into a hwy of any kind. Fortunately it wont happen.

I wouild support tolling the Malahat.

As for transit options, those numbers were just guesses. 4% is better than nothing and thats based on the current service.

There is always talk about economic costs, but what about the environmental and social costs?

I am not suggesting that 50% will switch to transit and rail, but expanding the highway is a short term solution to a long term problem, it just postphones the issue for a few more years.

[UrbanRail]

Another thing to consider, is giving people choices to travel up island. The current Greyhoud service was actually cut back, the transit commuter service only runs M-F and only during rush hour, biking is not an option, plus many dont drive (including me).

[sebberry]

The current Greyhoud service was actually cut back

This is interesting - Greyhound isn't a public service like BCF or BCT, so they're not going to operate busses at a loss.

I don't see any company cutting back a service that makes them money. Is it possible that people simply weren't interested in the alternative service like the bus?

[vandervalk]

Tolling the Malahat? I wouldn't support having to pay a toll to get through the only emergency route out of Victoria, let alone having to pay to leave to get up island.

I feel like I'm taking it from BC ferries as it is, now having to pay to go the other direction too?

I also don't see how a Toll would prevent accidents and could you imagine what it would do for those that live outside of Victoria? The traffic is bad enough let alone having to wait to get through a toll, unless it was an electronic toll like the 407 in Toronto.

The biggest problem with the 'hat is the scenery. It's hard not to look around when you are driving up or down it. But I suspect for the most part, medical issues aside, if people just drove a vehicle like the should, paid attention to the road, rates would go down.

Ask yourself this. How many times have YOU almost caused an accident on the Malahat because of the road design?

[maniac78]

Is it possible that people simply weren't interested in the alternative service like the bus?

Wow yeah that's so surprising. Greyhound even treats it's customers semi decently, everyone gets a seat and it's not all cramped like a sardine can AND STILL people don't like it. Nothing beats the car.

[maniac78]

Ask yourself this. How many times have YOU almost caused an accident on the Malahat because of the road design?

How many times have you seen people go over the center line on any of the corners? I've seen it many, many times. Luckily I drive with my right wheel almost touching the rumble strips. I think it's just a fact of life that some people are not capable of driving properly. We've all seen people that just can't drive. My wife is one of them actually. She's downright scary at night so I always drive at night.