2544 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

It's more than just an email. Easily deleted. It's the fact that it is an unfair advantage for a candidate that harvests emails from CoV communication

 

Election laws only apply 30 days before an election.

[Nparker]

Election laws only apply 30 days before an election.

That may be so but underhanded tricks to get citizens' email addresses cannot be left unchallenged.

[rmpeers]

who gets worked up over receiving an e-mail?

It's a pattern. Ben is like a spider, who goads you into emailing him because his controversial stances are upsetting. Then as soon as you hit "send", you are ensnared in his mailing list web.

[John M.]

I'm not sure this is the case, given the tendency of the Premier and his cabinet to criticize and/or override decisions made by the current council.  I honestly think TV might sit to the left of the NDP, although left/right can be hard to discern at the municipal level...

 

There is a big gap between TV and the NDP. TV is dominated by the NDP, but also has significant membership that come from the Greens. Former federal Communist candidate Tyson Strandlund and former Animal Alliance candidate Jordan Reichert have also previously run for nominations with TV.

[John M.]

Received this email today (titled 'Join us for Canvass Training!"), and in no discernible way other than I sent emails on several occasions in the past to council with my comments about various upcoming development projects. Is it legal for them to use my email this way, for their own promotion, when I write the city in regards to council business? I know Isitt has done this for many years. Definitely not a supporter of Together Victoria, and never directly gave them my email. 

 

Can you prove that TV got your email from the COV? 

[Mike K.]

It's not the individual who has to prove how TV got their email, TV has to prove that they received authorization to send the email to that individual.

[Bernard]

Can someone post a link to the relevant law?  I have a few suspicions on this may have happened but I want to first look at the formal laws that apply

[lanforod]

Can someone post a link to the relevant law?  I have a few suspicions on this may have happened but I want to first look at the formal laws that apply

 

Start with 6 (1): https://laws-lois.ju...1.html#h-176975

[Bernard]

The Act applies to commercial email and does not seem to apply to any political activity.  Political activity is normally not intended to be covered by laws prohibiting contact, as an example, political campaigns are allowed to make calls to people on the do not call list.   Also federally and provincially, no strata can stop people from coming onto their property to campaign, in fact residential buildings are required to open the doors to campaigners.

 

From the Act:

 

Meaning of commercial electronic message

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a commercial electronic message is an electronic message that, having regard to the content of the message, the hyperlinks in the message to content on a website or other database, or the contact information contained in the message, it would be reasonable to conclude has as its purpose, or one of its purposes, to encourage participation in a commercial activity, including an electronic message that

• (a) offers to purchase, sell, barter or lease a product, goods, a service, land or an interest or right in land;

• (b) offers to provide a business, investment or gaming opportunity;

• © advertises or promotes anything referred to in paragraph (a) or (b); or

• (d) promotes a person, including the public image of a person, as being a person who does anything referred to in any of paragraphs (a) to ©, or who intends to do so.

How they got the email address, not certain, but it would seem they are in their right to email you

[Nparker]

...How they got the email address, not certain, but it would seem they are in their right to email you

I think the how needs to be determined regardless of a political right to send email.

[Bernard]

The how is something to be figured out and it could be an unethical way they got it, but it is still legal for them to email

[Nparker]

If I get messaged from anyone representing Together Victoria, the only response they will get from me is an inquiry into how they got ahold of my email address.

[Kungsberg]

Can you prove that TV got your email from the COV? 

 

My email address (and my full name, I should add, which is not obvious as part of the email address) that Together Victoria managed to obtain and subsequently used for promotion of their candidate, is one that I use only for certain business uses: 

1. Utility bills
2. Online purchases 
3. Report to City Hall of a pot hole, knocked-down stop sign, blocked/overflowing street drain, etc (using their online “I want to report…” section, and one does need to give a name, address and email when filling those out)
4. Writing to Mayor and Council (as a whole) regarding issues that they were all going to vote on. Probably 4 emails sent over the past 10 years. Soon after one of those emails, it was municipal election time, and lo & behold I receive an email from candidate Ben Isitt thanking me for my support (what? no support was given) and urging me to vote, and to vote for him, to continue the progress, etc….blah blah. My business partner received the same email, and we had each written in to Mayor/Council regarding the same issue that was to be decided by Council. I’ve never received a similar campaign email from any of the other Councillors.

 

I’ve never given my email address to any political party at any level, or signed up to receive info from any municipal candidate; I don’t follow any of them on Facebook, Twitter or any other social media.  I follow politics and I visit their websites and go to all-candidate debates, but I don’t want them writing me.

 

So to answer your question, John: no, I can’t “prove it”, and I guess that’s the beauty of it.

 

I look at the task of new candidates, particularly the independent ones, and how difficult it is to be heard. You can door-knock all you like and it would be a miracle to break through to have even the beginning of name recognition. Most of the time people aren’t home to answer the door, and with many multi-family dwellings you don’t even have access to their mailboxes to drop a pamphlet. It’s very expensive to do a mailing, and I’ve noticed in the past even well-established Councillors do shared mailings. So a decent targeted email list, that’s a gold mine.  As there’s no cost involved in emails, it doesn’t even count towards election spending limits. Even if your messaging falls on unreceptive ground 80% of the time, you’re getting the candidate’s name & viewpoints across to the other 20%.  If (and I know it’s an ‘if’) those email addresses were harvested from people who have written in to Council, then I would imagine those are people who are more likely to vote in a municipal election than the average resident.

 

But I really don’t know what the election rules are. Can someone who is the recipient of emails through the course of carrying out their elected duties, then use those email addresses for campaigning? If I write Carole James about some provincial issue because she represents my riding, can she use my email address (and for the thousands of others who have written her) during an election campaign saying “thanks for your support, and let’s continue to fight for x-y-z”? I wouldn’t have thought so. It seems like such an unfair advantage for an incumbent, and an unfair advantage for anyone that they would support through a slate.

[Victoria Watcher]

i think moderators can add the date to this now.

[Nparker]

 

...Soon after one of those emails, it was municipal election time, and lo & behold I receive an email from candidate Ben Isitt thanking me for my support

I had exactly the same experience and I let the good Comrade know exactly where he could find my support.

[lanforod]

The Act applies to commercial email and does not seem to apply to any political activity.  Political activity is normally not intended to be covered by laws prohibiting contact, as an example, political campaigns are allowed to make calls to people on the do not call list.   Also federally and provincially, no strata can stop people from coming onto their property to campaign, in fact residential buildings are required to open the doors to campaigners.

 

From the Act:

How they got the email address, not certain, but it would seem they are in their right to email you

 

Hmm. Yeah, the federal act here doesn't play into this, you're right.

 

BC's PIPA (http://www.bclaws.ca...ide/00_03063_01) does however. Just read the example on page 21 of this document: https://www.oipc.bc....-documents/1438

 

 

 

» Anja owns a bookstore and maintains an email list of customers who want information on new releases. When her friend, Rose, decides to run for city council, she uses this list to send out a mass email urging her customers to vote for Rose as a pro-book candidate. Rose has contravened PIPA because she is using the collected information for a new purpose (to campaign for Rose) without first determining whether the new use is reasonable and before notifying her customers that she wishes to use their email addresses for this new purpose and obtaining their consent to do so.

 

 

Eg - very similar (not saying this is what happened):

» Isitt is a member of Victoria city council and regularly receives emails from constituents as part of his role on Victoria City Council. When an associated political organization, Together Victoria, decides to run a candidate for a city council byelection, he gives them a list of email address who have contacted City Council to send out a mass email urging those people to vote for for the Together Victoria candidate. Isitt and Together Victoria have contravened PIPA because they are using the collected information for a new purpose (to campaign for TV) without first determining whether the new use is reasonable and before notifying those constituents that they wish to use their email addresses for this new purpose and obtaining their consent to do so.

Edited by lanforod, 17 January 2020 - 02:18 PM.

[G-Man]

Technically they would have violated FoIPPA I think as it is a public body not private and the violation would be against the City of Victoria.

[lanforod]

Potentially both. TV violated PIPA, CoV and whoever passed the email list on, FOIPPA.

[Nparker]

An on-point commentary regarding the current state of civic politics in the CoV from Stephen Hammond in today's TC

...In Victoria, just say “progressive” and regardless of your credentials, you’re elected. For decades, I’ve called myself progressive, with big donations and activist work, along with money and support to the provincial NDP and the federal Liberals, but clearly I’m not progressive enough. How else do you explain people voting in the entire Together Victoria slate? It’s no wonder Isitt, who heads this group, wants more money for a part-time job. I can’t imagine a less-qualified slate of candidates who are in charge of overseeing the city’s annual budget of more than $300 million each and every year. Look at the resumés of these people and it’s no wonder they need more time to figure things out. But again, that’s the choice of the voters.To get elected to Victoria council you have to either be: An incumbent; on a slate; or a “star.”...

https://www.timescol...-why-1.24055655

 

[Victoria Watcher]

that's quite a letter.  south africa and us abortion comparisons even.