2544 replies to this topic

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

Four of your City of Victoria councillors can’t even cast a vote for themselves as they don’t live in your municipality. Two vote in Saanich, two will vote in Esquimalt.

Is that fair? How is that fair, or logical?

Meanwhile the bakery down the street from your home now in its 14th year of business has invested $100,000 into tenant improvements, has paid $15,000 per year in municipal property taxes, and is impacted directly, every day, by the vote of someone who moved into the City of Victoria as a renter in January of 2018, cast a vote in the City of Victoria in November of 2018, but moved to Esquimalt in March of 2019. Is that fair, or logical, in light of the aforementioned business owner having zero say come election time?

 

Why should people who live outside your municipality be allowed to vote in your municipality? Much like business owners who operate in a different riding than the one they vote in provincially/federally. 

 

The simple answer is Saanich/Victoria/Oak Bay/Esquimalt need to be amalgamated at a minimum.

[Mike K.]

Eligible resident-voters far, far, far outnumber business licenses in the City of Victoria, so there’s no threat of the business vote overtaking the resident vote.

And I disagree that businesses already have a lot of sway. Look at what almost happened to the horse carriage industry, when council decided it wanted to sunset the companies involved? A few squeaky wheels are out there but business owners overwhelmingly keep their head down and just focus on making ends meet. As for taxes, they pay them through their lease. The landlord/building owner wouldn’t last without that revenue as the property taxes alone would make holding a building as a vacant property in feasible in the majority of cases.

[Mike K.]

Why should people who live outside your municipality be allowed to vote in your municipality? Much like business owners who operate in a different riding than the one they vote in provincially/federally.

The simple answer is Saanich/Victoria/Oak Bay/Esquimalt need to be amalgamated at a minimum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to just let someone choose if they should cast a vote where they sleep, or where they run a business? We already allow that for land/building/property owners. What’s so scary about extending that to business operators?

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

Not only that, what you're suggesting is businesses getting a 2+ votes as it will be damn near impossible for the City to administer who votes for the business in the event of multiple owners & not only that, administering whether the business is also voting as a resident in the same municipality.

[Mike K.]

Not only that, what you're suggesting is businesses getting a 2+ votes as it will be damn near impossible for the City to administer who votes for the business in the event of multiple owners & not only that, administering whether the business is also voting as a resident in the same municipality.

That’s already being administered. And it’s not a “business” voting, it’s a person voting. If you live in Victoria and run a business in Victoria you’re still just one person. They check for that so that you don’t vote six times in a municipal election (which you’re free to try, by the way, but that’s trouble).

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

Eligible resident-voters far, far, far outnumber business licenses in the City of Victoria, so there’s no threat to the business vote overtaking the resident vote.

 

I imagine many business license holders are already voting in the CoV. You can't give a business a vote. This is why business communities back politicians they like...

[Ismo07]

Wouldn’t it be simpler to just let someone choose if they should cast a vote where they sleep, or where they run a business? We already allow that for land/building/property owners. What’s so scary about extending that to business operators?

 

Those people do vote in both, they don't pick one.

[Mike K.]

I imagine many business license holders are already voting in the CoV. You can't give a business a vote. This is why business communities back politicians they like...

Again, it’s not a “business” that’s voting, it’s a person that’s voting. If they already live in Victoria they would get one vote.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

Again, it’s not a “business” that’s voting, it’s a person that’s voting. If they already live in Victoria they would get one vote.

 

so given the person a 2nd vote...

[Ismo07]

Eligible resident-voters far, far, far outnumber business licenses in the City of Victoria, so there’s no threat of the business vote overtaking the resident vote.

And I disagree that businesses already have a lot of sway. Look at what almost happened to the horse carriage industry, when council decided it wanted to sunset the companies involved? A few squeaky wheels are out there but business owners overwhelmingly keep their head down and just focus on making ends meet. As for taxes, they pay them through their lease. The landlord/building owner wouldn’t last without that revenue as the property taxes alone would make holding a building as a vacant property in feasible in the majority of cases.

 

Well you can disagree all you want, businesses have a ton of sway either alone or through the DVBA and Chamber.  The horse carriage thing was about something else entirely and will likely come up again over the years.  Developers do too right? 

[Ismo07]

so given the person a 2nd vote...

No Mike would ensure they wouldn't get a 2nd vote, but their partner would if he/she lived elsewhere.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

The simplest thing would be to not have 13 municipalities spread across the area of Surrey.

[Mike K.]

Those people do vote in both, they don't pick one.

Yes, you’re right, my bad.

Also, if the property is even partly owned by a corporation it is ineligible. Which means the majority of commercial buildings and properties are not eligible.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

I think Mike has way too much faith in election administration. There's no way this could be administered to ensure people aren't voting multiple times, full stop.

[GetLisaSomeHelps]

Yes, you’re right, my bad.

Also, if the property is even partly owned by a corporation it is ineligible. Which means the majority of commercial buildings and properties are not eligible.

 

Mainly because their "voice" is heard through other avenues than the voting station. They have a lot of pull - way more pull than a vote.

[Ismo07]

Yes, you’re right, my bad.

Also, if the property is even partly owned by a corporation it is ineligible. Which means the majority of commercial buildings and properties are not eligible.

 

Yes they are ineligible, just like business owners are. When we start opening things up maybe corporations would like a say as well, as if they don't already anyway.  Think when Microsoft came they were silent or think the City was excited to have them and would have listened to their comments.  Just saying businesses have major pull...

[Mike K.]

Well you can disagree all you want, businesses have a ton of sway either alone or through the DVBA and Chamber. The horse carriage thing was about something else entirely and will likely come up again over the years. Developers do too right?

The biggest sway appears to come from community associations.

Even the mayor has said she’s not happy with the political sway those bodies have.

[Mike K.]

Mainly because their "voice" is heard through other avenues than the voting station. They have a lot of pull - way more pull than a vote.

Such as?

[Ismo07]

I think Mike has way too much faith in election administration. There's no way this could be administered to ensure people aren't voting multiple times, full stop.

 

I think he is going to manage it...

[Mike K.]

Yes they are ineligible, just like business owners are. When we start opening things up maybe corporations would like a say as well, as if they don't already anyway. Think when Microsoft came they were silent or think the City was excited to have them and would have listened to their comments. Just saying businesses have major pull...

Microsoft came ...and very quickly went. Whatever “pull” they had they weren’t around long enough to benefit from it.