26251 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

again, can you give a specific example (preferably with a link) that relates to this thread? like a doctor, epidemiologist, infectious-disease specialist (etc) of murray gell-mann's stature has found a mistake in the media's reporting on covid-19 so egregious that it reverses cause & effect, and not retracted or corrected. i suppose he (crichton) means to commit an "affirming the consequent" fallacy.

Edited by amor de cosmos, 14 January 2022 - 11:18 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Third-largest cable TV network:

 

https://twitter.com/...853387839217664

 

 

 

 

 

"Now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person," Maddow said on her show the evening of March 29, 2021. 

 

"A vaccinated person gets exposed to the virus, the virus does not infect them, the virus cannot then use that person to go anywhere else," she added with a shrug. "It cannot use a vaccinated person as a host to go get more people."

 

https://www.foxnews....maddow-vaccines

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 January 2022 - 11:27 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

https://covid-19.ont...ospitalizations

 

[dasmo]

What he is suggesting is that he is listening to more than one mechanic about his broked up car, not listen to a geographer.

 

 

Well till there is a sound answer to that, it won't fly with me.  I do not think the governments around the world are trying to keep this sort of power grip on their peoples, there is no winning for them.  Might be better to not watch tik toks and read memes for info.

I can also learn about how my car works so that I am not taken to the cleaners by a mechanic who wants me to replace something before it is actually needed.... False equivalencies abound in this endless hamster wheel of "my truth is better than your truth" 

 

Separate the why from the what. Why is very difficult to find. The what can easily be observed. 

[dasmo]

again, can you give a specific example (preferably with a link) that relates to this thread? like a doctor, epidemiologist, infectious-disease specialist (etc) of murray gell-mann's stature has found a mistake in the media's reporting on covid-19 so egregious that it reverses cause & effect, and not retracted or corrected. i suppose he (crichton) means to commit an "affirming the consequent" fallacy.

 

You should definitely read Edward Bernays "Propaganda". He wrote it as a modern advertising manual in the 20s before the word got a bad rap. This is what the profession was called before it turned in the Public Relations. Also a term he came up with. 

[dasmo]

We should just put this on repeat for 2020 2.0

 

https://vimeo.com/un...uaDBej5TJAHXR1w

[amor de cosmos]

You should definitely read Edward Bernays "Propaganda". He wrote it as a modern advertising manual in the 20s before the word got a bad rap. This is what the profession was called before it turned in the Public Relations. Also a term he came up with.

how do you know I haven't? i've also read his essay the engineering of consent. is there any specific part that relates to reporting on covid-19 or is it all good? since you mention propaganda i guess you've heard of manufacturing consent? here's what its author had to say recently about covid-19, vaccination etc:
 

AMY GOODMAN: Noam, can you talk about how you think that skepticism can be overcome — I mean, you, yourself, a serious critic of the corporate-government alliance — why people should trust large pharmaceutical companies like Moderna and Pfizer, that are making billions, why in this case we should trust that vaccines will save the population?

NOAM CHOMSKY: If the information came from Pfizer and Moderna, there would be no reason to trust it. But it just happens that 100% of health agencies throughout the world and the vast majority of the medical profession and the health sciences accept the actually quite overwhelming evidence that vaccination radically reduces onset of infection and deaths. The evidence on that is very compelling. And it’s therefore not surprising that it’s basically universally accepted by relevant authorities. So, yes, if we heard it just from Big Pharma PR, there would be every reason for skepticism. But you can look at the data. They’re available. And you can — when you do so, you can understand why there is essentially universal acceptance among the agencies that have no stake in the matter other than trying to save lives. You can understand why poor African countries who weren’t paid off by Big Pharma are pleading for vaccines. Their health agencies are.

And, in fact, the only exception I noted about this, apart from Trump for a period, was Bolsonaro’s Brazil, and he is now being under charges of a long senatorial investigation for charges of crimes against humanity for his failure to follow the normal protocol of trying to maximize the use of vaccines. Now that his reticence, reluctance on this matter has been overturned, it’s having the usual effect. Vaccinations are increasing, and incidence of disease and deaths is sharply declining. That correlation is so clear that it takes a real strange refusal to look at facts to see it. And again, as I say, health agencies throughout world are uniform and agreed with the medical profession on the efficacy of vaccines.

There are other things that have to be done: social distancing, care, masking in crowded places. There are measures that have to be taken. Countries where these measures have been followed carefully are doing quite well. But where there’s a high level of skepticism, whatever its roots, there are serious problems.

https://www.democrac...nts_rising_anti

[Victoria Watcher]

CBC headline:

Omicron transmission is declining in B.C., modelling suggests — but hospitalizations have yet to peak

CBC headline:

Federal modelling suggests 'very intense' Omicron surge within weeks

CBC article:

There are early indications that the rate of new infections may be stabilizing in Ontario and Quebec. "It is quite possible that in the next few days we'll see a peak in the cases," said Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 January 2022 - 01:38 PM.

[dasmo]

how do you know I haven't? i've also read his essay the engineering of consent. is there any specific part that relates to reporting on covid-19 or is it all good? since you mention propaganda i guess you've heard of manufacturing consent? here's what its author had to say recently about covid-19, vaccination etc:
 

https://www.democrac...nts_rising_anti

I found Propaganda more precise. Noam's statements there are full of rhetoric that he himself has no clue if they are true or not. A sad way to end his career. Saving lives with a for profit chemical solution injected into everyone that comes at the expense of all else is insanity at best. 

[Ismo07]

Some people in this thread say "don't believe any of the conspiracy stuff, just trust what you read from MSM sources".

 

When G-M proves that most mainstream media gets lots wrong too.

 

I believe people have said the first part.  Show me where someone says blatantly "trust what you read in MSM"  Sure they might post some of that, but no one says trust it all...

[spanky123]

CBC headline:

Omicron transmission is declining in B.C., modelling suggests — but hospitalizations have yet to peak

CBC headline:

Federal modelling suggests 'very intense' Omicron surge within weeks

CBC article:

There are early indications that the rate of new infections may be stabilizing in Ontario and Quebec. "It is quite possible that in the next few days we'll see a peak in the cases," said Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer.

 

Need to continue the "state of emergency" to prevent debate and discussion on policies.

[Victoria Watcher]

UK:

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

 

[Ismo07]

I can also learn about how my car works so that I am not taken to the cleaners by a mechanic who wants me to replace something before it is actually needed.... False equivalencies abound in this endless hamster wheel of "my truth is better than your truth" 

 

Separate the why from the what. Why is very difficult to find. The what can easily be observed. 

 

You certainly can and can f-it up, especially these new cars..  The thing you missed is he is going to 100s of mechanics.  This isn't blindly following.  And it's not "my" proof silly, it's medical and scientist proof compared to proof you are digging up that for the most part lacks the same effort.   I get it you'll say my guy invented this (so he knows more - not true), or my guy checked this out but with little peer review..  You want to believe that and that's fine, that's the best part of this, is you get to believe it and push it out hoping someone agrees.  It just doesn't pass muster.  Yeah are there sometimes the science gets it wrong, sure, that all a part of the process..

[Ismo07]

UK:

 

 

 

Quite a spike in deaths in the UK.  I appreciate it might not be Omicron per se but kind of looks like it part of it.

[dasmo]

You certainly can and can f-it up, especially these new cars..  The thing you missed is he is going to 100s of mechanics.  This isn't blindly following.  And it's not "my" proof silly, it's medical and scientist proof compared to proof you are digging up that for the most part lacks the same effort.   I get it you'll say my guy invented this (so he knows more - not true), or my guy checked this out but with little peer review..  You want to believe that and that's fine, that's the best part of this, is you get to believe it and push it out hoping someone agrees.  It just doesn't pass muster.  Yeah are there sometimes the science gets it wrong, sure, that all a part of the process..

I think I will just get into the false equivalency groove. He is going to 100's of minute lubes who all say the same thing (because it is what the routine is). I go to the old school mechanic who actually looks at the car and fixes it as it needs to be fixed. Doesn't even show me my dirty air filter to sell me a new one I don't need! 

 

You can believe whatever you like, follow who you want, worship whatever you want. Just think it is ok to force me and everyone else to do the same.... 

[dasmo]

Quite a spike in deaths in the UK.  I appreciate it might not be Omicron per se but kind of looks like it part of it.

2020 2.0

[Ismo07]

I think I will just get into the false equivalency groove. He is going to 100's of minute lubes who all say the same thing (because it is what the routine is). I go to the old school mechanic who actually looks at the car and fixes it as it needs to be fixed. Doesn't even show me my dirty air filter to sell me a new one I don't need! 

 

You can believe whatever you like, follow who you want, worship whatever you want. Just think it is ok to force me and everyone else to do the same.... 

 

Nah that's not true, you could train and work there.. You would never be asked to perform a serious medical procedure or any sort of scientific study through peer review..  It's not about worship (that is such a weird comment)..  I watch data and really go from there.  I give two rips what you do except when you try to spread BS without any discussion.  Let's just keep going, you toss them up and I get good chuckles out of your interpretations.. Sorry not yours but likely some youtubers that you find.

[Victoria Watcher]

Alberta Health reported 36 more people were in hospitals receiving care for COVID-19 on Friday than there were on Thursday.

 

A total of 822 people were in hospital on Friday afternoon with the disease, with 81 of those people receiving care in the ICU.

 

https://globalnews.c...ate-january-14/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 January 2022 - 03:26 PM.

[dasmo]

Nah that's not true, you could train and work there.. You would never be asked to perform a serious medical procedure or any sort of scientific study through peer review..  It's not about worship (that is such a weird comment)..  I watch data and really go from there.  I give two rips what you do except when you try to spread BS without any discussion.  Let's just keep going, you toss them up and I get good chuckles out of your interpretations.. Sorry not yours but likely some youtubers that you find.

You give me good chuckles too... as you hold on to the elephant trunk saying with calm reasonableness that anyone who thinks it is not a snake. is just simply not a reasonable as you. 

[Ismo07]

You give me good chuckles too... as you hold on to the elephant trunk saying with calm reasonableness that anyone who thinks it is not a snake. is just simply not a reasonable as you. 

 

You will have to clarify that, I do not try to learn science from memes... You don't need to be as reasonable as me, not what it's about at all.  Just odd you follow/worship thoughts from random youtubers who have never been heard of before, who now broadcast from their mom's basement and you feel they are the truth tellers.. It's laughable... I suppose the trunk is better to hold on to than the tail end... You used to bring interesting links and such, what has happened...?  Now all memes and jokes...

Edited by Ismo07, 14 January 2022 - 03:46 PM.