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COVID-19 / Coronavirus updates in Victoria, BC


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#20741 Mike K.

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 09:03 PM

It actually is - by definition - if two or more groups conspire to mislead.

There is no doubt that politicians and health officials conspired to give the public misinformation about mask use at the beginning of the pandemic.

They literally told us masks do not work. Then did a complete 180 weeks or months later.

I think that’s a bit of a stretch. You could just as easily turn that conspiracy into incompetence or misinformation supplied to Canadian officials in the very early days of dealing with this virus.

None of our politicians and health officers are experts in this sort of thing, they all learned, and often by making mistakes.
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#20742 phx

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:09 PM

What do you mean by disproportionally? 

Oh, just looked at the charts and indeed deaths are less than would be expected even from the grossly undercounted case numbers.

 

The experts who insisted that Omicron was as deadly as Delta really have some egg on their face.


Edited by phx, 17 January 2022 - 10:12 PM.


#20743 Mike K.

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:23 PM

Another example of the rocky road we’re on.

But I just can’t see “conspiracy.” I do see misinformation and in some cases an extreme overabundance of caution, even if it ultimately makes our response look really foolish.
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#20744 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:36 PM

 

I was reading someone that 8 billion was invested in a reporting system in Ontario that never seen the light of day! 

 

8 billion - tax payers money 

 

TFord



#20745 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:49 PM

I think that’s a bit of a stretch. You could just as easily turn that conspiracy into incompetence or misinformation supplied to Canadian officials in the very early days of dealing with this virus.

None of our politicians and health officers are experts in this sort of thing, they all learned, and often by making mistakes.

 

 

 

https://www.theguard...ending-watchdog

 

37 billion pounds - over 50 billion dollars 

 

think about that number for a moment 

 

 

TFord 



#20746 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:53 PM

https://www.cbc.ca/n...nding-1.5827045

 

drop in the ocean I guess! 

 

240 billion dollars 

 

 

TFord 



#20747 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:57 PM

Ottawa's PPE-related expenditures, largely made on behalf of the provinces and territories, have also been extensive. Of the $6.1 billion spent, as detailed in Public Services and Procurement Canada contract disclosures, $1.79 billion was for gowns, $1.15 billion for ventilators, $655 million for N95 masks, $381 million for rubber gloves and $376 million for hand sanitizer. At least 35 of the contracted companies appear to be based outside of Canada, and have signed agreements worth a total of $607.7 million.

But again, the details are often lacking. In October, Conservative MP Michelle Rempel Garner filed a motion calling on the federal government to release "all memoranda, emails, documents, notes and other records" detailing the purchase of testing-related equipment and supplies, personal protective gear, as well as vaccine contracts and distribution strategies. The Liberal government objected. 

"If we go ahead and release information, that will undermine our supplier relationships," Public Services and Procurement Minister Anita Anand told CBC News Network's Power & Politics, explaining that disclosing sensitive business information could threaten the government's ability to negotiate future contracts.

I love the last paragraph 



#20748 Moderation

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:57 PM

Oh, just looked at the charts and indeed deaths are less than would be expected even from the grossly undercounted case numbers.

 

The experts who insisted that Omicron was as deadly as Delta really have some egg on their face.

 

 

Does this mean that  your initial statement was wrong and that you now agree that omicron is less deadly than delta?

 

Reported cases for both delta and omicron are under reporting  cases. Because omicron is more transmissible than delta it is often assumed to be even a greater under reporting for omicron. For that reason hospitalization, IICU admissions and resulting deaths make for a better comparison for how serious they are when compared.

 

Even experts with limited data often make statements that turn out to not be totally accurate especially when pushed to give an opinion with limited information..  Most will admit that they were wrong when later evidence supports that they were not correct. 



#20749 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:01 PM

Mega yacht manufacturers order books are full - now I understand. What a world we live in! 

 

Buy anything of value, it will 5X in the coming years 

 

 

TFord 



#20750 Moderation

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:18 PM

Mega yacht manufacturers order books are full - now I understand. What a world we live in! 

 

Buy anything of value, it will 5X in the coming years 

 

 

TFord 

Is this another distracting statement? 

 

How did you get from Mega yacht manufactures order books being full to buy anything of value, it will be 5x in the coming years.    ( inflation? phone calls were a dime once)

How is this relevant to this discussion?



#20751 phx

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:49 PM

Does this mean that  your initial statement was wrong and that you now agree that omicron is less deadly than delta?

 

 

 

I never said Omicron was as deadly as Delta, just the opposite in fact.  It was the experts who said that Omicron was as deadly.

 

I’m not sure if you misread my post or are just a troll.



#20752 TFord

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:59 PM

Is this another distracting statement? 

 

How did you get from Mega yacht manufactures order books being full to buy anything of value, it will be 5x in the coming years.    ( inflation? phone calls were a dime once)

How is this relevant to this discussion?

 

I was thinking about something Mike K said in relation to Covid-19 / Politicians / conspiracy etc.. 

 

It's relevant, it's relevant for me. 

 

 

TFord 



#20753 Spy Black

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 06:25 AM

It's relevant, it's relevant for me. 

Mega Yacht sales are directly relevant to COVID-19 in your world?

 

That explains quite a bit in terms of understanding your posts here in the forum.



#20754 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 08:51 AM

Quebec hospitalizations only up 1% today. Maybe that’s peak.

They dropped the curfew yesterday.

Ontario says they might reduce some restrictions later this week.

#20755 amor de cosmos

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:09 AM

Mega Yacht sales are directly relevant to COVID-19 in your world?
 
That explains quite a bit in terms of understanding your posts here in the forum.

i actually remember a story very early in the pandemic about workers at a mega-yacht shipyard in cornwall for some reason being essential, but i don't think that's what he was getting at
 
i can't imagine this is what he means, it sounds too much like socialism

CNN’s Christine Romans took time on Tuesday to look at a study from Oxfam International, and she determined that the pandemic has been a “profit machine for the world’s richest people.” The study says that in the last 21 months, the total wealth of billionaires has shot up by more than $5 trillion, and the world’s ten richest men have seen their combined fortunes rise from $700 billion to $1.5 trillion.
 
“When times are tough, the rich get richer. When times are good, the rich get richer,” Romans summarized. “All told, their total worth is 6 times greater than the world’s poorest 3.1 billion people. It’s almost mind-boggling.”

https://www.mediaite...covid-pandemic/

Small business confidence plunges to lowest since pandemic began amid Omicron chill
CFIB calls for government's help 'if we want to avoid mass casualties in the small business community'
https://financialpos...d-omicron-chill

Health Canada approves Pfizer antiviral but supply issues expected
https://www.winnipeg...-576073442.html

Compared to their peers, youth with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are more likely to experience significant impairment in school functioning and mental health. Mix in the COVID-19 pandemic and the disruptions are even greater.
https://www.eurekale...releases/940325
 
more about myocarditis

The heart has played a central role in COVID-19 since the beginning. Cardiovascular conditions are among the highest risk factors for hospitalization. A significant number of patients hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 infections have signs of heart damage, and many recover from infection with lasting cardiovascular injury.
 
It's not surprising that debates over COVID-19 vaccines frequently center around issues involving cardiovascular health. The high-profile collapse of Danish soccer player Christian Eriksen in June initiated a myth about the link between sudden cardiac death and vaccination among athletes that persists several months later.
 
Perhaps the most common point of conflict concerning COVID-19 vaccines is the risk of myocarditis following immunization, particularly among young people.
 
What do the numbers tell us about COVID-19, vaccines and myocarditis?

*snip*

Post-vaccination myocarditis

Myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination is rare and the risk is much smaller than the risks of cardiac injury linked to COVID-19 itself.

Based on a study out of Israel, the risk of post-vaccine myocarditis is 2.13 cases per 100,000 vaccinated, which is within the range usually seen in the general population. This study is consistent with others in the United States and Israel which put the overall incidence of post-vaccine myocarditis between 0.3 and five cases per 100,000 people.

The kids are alright

The highest incidence of myocarditis after vaccination with mRNA vaccines has occurred within three to four days after the second vaccination in males who are under age 30. In pediatric data, the median age is 15.8 years, with most patients being male (90.6 per cent) and white (66.2 per cent) or Hispanic (20.9 per cent). Reliable data on booster shots in this age group is not yet available.

Most studies show a clear benefit of COVID-19 mRNA vaccination with respect to myocarditis. Only one study by Martina Patone, from the University of Oxford, and colleagues found more ambiguous results for those under 40 years of age based on myocarditis rates alone. However, if considering the other ill effects of infection with SARS-CoV-2 — both cardiac and not — there was still a strong benefit in immunizing younger people with COVID-19 vaccines other than Moderna, which research suggests has a higher risk for myocarditis than Pfizer’s vaccine.
 
*snip*
 
Adults who develop myocarditis from COVID-19 have poorer outcomes than non-COVID-19 cases, including a higher risk of death. It should be noted that myocarditis associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection is just one of several heart conditions linked to COVID-19 with outcomes that are worse than non-COVID-19 cases.
 
In cases of myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination, the vast majority of cases are mild and resolve quickly. In adults, 95 per cent of cases were deemed to be mild. Similarly, in children, 98.6 per cent are mild, and there has not been any reported need for mechanical heart support (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, when blood is pumped outside the body to a heart-lung machine) or deaths. All children who had heart weakness had complete normalization of their heart function on followup.

https://theconversat...cination-174580
via https://medicalxpres...accination.html

Henry Ford Study Finds Low Risk of Myocarditis in College Athletes Who Recover from Mild COVID Symptoms
Researchers issue caution that the link between COVID and cardiovascular disease remains unclear.
https://www.newswise...covid-symptoms/

NZ scientists develop method to disinfect PPE for potential reuse in Covid-19
New Zealand scientists have developed a shipping container-based unit to disinfect N95 masks and other PPE, so it can be potentially reused and safely recycled.
https://www.eurekale...releases/940347

Uptake and continued use of the NHS Covid-19 app last year depended on people’s trust in the UK Government, their concern about privacy, and crucially whether other people in their social networks endorse it, a new study shows.
https://www.eurekale...releases/940341
 

France's health pass has saved almost 4,000 people's lives, eased the pressure on hospitals and helped to keep the economy afloat, according to a new report from an economic analysis group.
 
France’s Council of Economic Analysis, a group that advises the government, has produced a report on the impact of the health pass from its introduction on July 12th until the end of 2021 – and its headline finding is that the pass saved almost 4,000 lives.
 
The French health pass was introduced by the government in the summer of 2021 and its stated purpose was twofold; to stem the spread of the Covid pandemic and increase vaccination rate
 
To hold a valid health pass, French citizens must either have proof of full vaccination, proof of recent recovery from Covid or a negative PCR or antigen test taken within the past 24 hours. It is needed to access a wide range of venues such as restaurants, cafés, bars, cinemas, theatres, tourist venues, gyms, leisure centres and to use long-distance trains or visit health centres as a visitor or for non-emergency treatment.
 
A new study from the Council of Economic Analysis, an independent consortium of economists that advises the French Prime Minister’s office, has shown that the health pass has been a mighty success.
 
The study refers to health passes as “Covid certificates”. 
 
“We estimate that the announcement of Covid certificates during summer 2021 led to increased vaccine uptake in France of 13.0 percentage points  of the total population until the end of the year,” write the authors. 
 
“Further, this averted an additional 3,979 (3,453‐4,298) deaths in France.” 
 
“Notably, the application of Covid certificates substantially reduced the pressure on intensive care units (ICUs) and, in France, averted surpassing the occupancy levels where prior lockdowns were instated.”

https://www.thelocal...ost-4000-lives/
https://www.bruegel....and-the-economy
via https://www.ft.com/c...a0-d30fc16b6d9d
 
Novak Djokovic returned home Monday after being thwarted from defending his Australian Open title only to face a new predicament: He could be barred from the French Open this year, too, if he's still not vaccinated against COVID-19.
https://www.cbc.ca/s...-case-1.6317638

The world must vaccinate everyone against COVID-19 in order to defeat the pandemic, said the United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres.
Guterres made the remarks on Monday in his address to the World Economic Forum's (WEF) Davos Agenda, held virtually due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
"The last two years have demonstrated a simple but brutal truth -- if we leave anyone behind, we leave everyone behind," said the United Nations Secretary-General.
http://www.ecns.cn/n...ie2087976.shtml

Number of COVID-2019 cases across globe exceeds 325 million — WHO
The biggest number of coronavirus cases was reported from the United States, India, Brazil, the United Kingdom and France
https://tass.com/world/1389341
 
global excess deaths

Last year’s Day of the Dead marked a grim milestone. On 1 November, the global death toll from the COVID-19 pandemic passed 5 million, official data suggested. It has now reached 5.5 million. But that figure is a significant underestimate. Records of excess mortality — a metric that involves comparing all deaths recorded with those expected to occur — show many more people than this have died in the pandemic.
 
Working out how many more is a complex research challenge. It is not as simple as just counting up each country’s excess mortality figures. Some official data in this regard are flawed, scientists have found. And more than 100 countries do not collect reliable statistics on expected or actual deaths at all, or do not release them in a timely manner.
 
Demographers, data scientists and public-health experts are striving to narrow the uncertainties for a global estimate of pandemic deaths. These efforts, from both academics and journalists, use methods ranging from satellite images of cemeteries to door-to-door surveys and machine-learning computer models that try to extrapolate global estimates from available data.
 
Among these models, the World Health Organization (WHO) is still working on its first global estimate, but the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle, Washington, offers daily updates of its own modelled results, as well as projections of how quickly the global toll might rise. And one of the highest-profile attempts to model a global estimate has come from the news media. The Economist magazine in London has used a machine-learning approach to produce an estimate of 12 million to 22 million excess deaths — or between 2 and 4 times the pandemic’s official toll so far (see go.nature.com/3qjtyge and ‘Global toll’).

https://www.nature.c...586-022-00104-8
 
Support for populist parties and politicians, and agreement with populist sentiment, has diminished during the pandemic, according to a “mega-dataset” taking in attitudes of over half a million people across 109 countries since 2020.
A University of Cambridge team say there are clear signs of a turning tide for the “populist wave”, as the mishandling of coronavirus by populist leaders – along with a desire for stability and a decline in “polarising” attitudes resulting from the pandemic – starts to move public opinion.
https://www.alphagal...y/ItemId/216604
 
Dominic Cummings Ready to ‘Swear Under Oath’ BoJo 'Lied' About No 10 Lockdown-Busting 'Boozy Party'
https://sputniknews....1092332789.html
 

While the number of intensive-care-unit patients has been inching higher in recent weeks as the Omicron variant of the coronavirus spreads in Italy, it has not approached levels seen during earlier waves yet.
 
But at least one patient, recently released from Rome's Spallanzani Hospital after more than two weeks in the intensive care unit (ICU), warns there is no reason people should drop their guard.
 
"I could have died, and at one point I thought I was going to die," Roberto, a 61-year-old government worker, told Xinhua.
 
"I didn't take the pandemic seriously enough and I paid the price," he said. "My doctors said I was lucky to recover completely."
 
Roberto, a grandfather of two, was vaccinated in March 2021, around three months after Italy first started vaccinating residents. But as infection rates fell to low levels during the summer of that year, he said he disregarded messages from regional health officials for a second dose.

http://www.ecns.cn/n...ie2088100.shtml
 
Morocco plans $220 million package to help Covid-hit tourism sector
https://english.alar...-tourism-sector

2 close aides of Pope Francis test positive for COVID-19, Vatican says
https://www.rappler....9-vatican-says/

Almost 150,000 Children in India Lost Parents During COVID-19 Pandemic, Child Rights Watchdog Says
https://sputniknews....1092334946.html

Nationwide lockdown in Russia amid situation with COVID-19 is not an option — Kremlin
The Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov noted that "the situation can vary from region to region"
https://tass.com/world/1389645

Cabinet decides to postpone Russian Investment Forum from February to later dates, says PM
The forum was cancelled in 2020 and 2021 due to the coronavirus pandemic
https://tass.com/economy/1389655
 
Hong Kong police on Monday arrested two former flight attendants and charged them with breaching the city's COVID-19 rules, according to a government press release.
https://www.business...id-rules-2022-1

Hong Kong killing 2K small animals after hamsters catch COVID-19
https://globalnews.c...-kong-hamsters/
 

Former New York Times journalist Donald G. McNeil Jr. wrote an article on Medium that stated what everyone with an ounce of intelligence already knows, but wouldn’t dare put in print: Not only is Donald Trump losing hundreds of voters each day to COVID-19, their deaths are already surpassing the margins the GOP can possibly hope to attain in the swing states. Maybe it seems ghoulish to post the political ramifications to a human life, to which I reply that Democrats aren’t the ones killing these people—their own right-wing disinformation machine is. Hell, we are trying to save them despite the political ramifications. 

Trumpists simply don’t believe in wearing masks, or social distancing, and are so anti-vaxx that they won’t even listen to Trump himself as he tries to tout the vaccines. GOP leaders are also undermining public health directives aimed at protecting their own people. Trump did have a change of heart about promoting the vaccines only because someone impressed upon him that the deaths are his voters. He really needs as many as possible in 2024, but it’s too late—and it’s getting worse. 

Multiple studies from the AP, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and even Texas’ health services have shown that the deaths are almost entirely among the unvaccinated, and most of these individuals identify as Republican. The profile of a typical COVID-19 victim is now an older unvaccinated person who is obese and lives in a rural area, far from a hospital. In other words, lots of common ground with a Trumper. Obviously, this has already had a major political impact.

McNeil did the math:
 

As of this week, about 1,800 Americans a day are dying of Covid; the C.D.C. expects that number to rise above 2,600. Virtually all are adults. If 95 percent were unvaccinated and we assume that 75 percent of those were Trump supporters, that’s 1,300 to 1,900 of his voters being subtracted from the rolls every single day.

Donald Trump lost Arizona by a mere 10,000 votes. He lost Georgia by 12,000, He lost Wisconsin by 21,000. He lost Nevada by 33,000. Right now, about 60 Arizonans, 36 Georgians, 34 Wisconsinites and 14 Nevadans are dying of Covid each day. Seventy five percent of 95 percent of that would be minus 103 Trump voters per day  just in those four swing states. Week after week. That adds up.

 

The hospitals here in Florida are at the breaking point. The state broke the record with 430,297 cases last week. Also, Florida deaths rose from 184 the previous week to 470 just last week, the most since early November. Gov. Ron DeSantis is so far gone that he is arguing that Trump was too sane and honest about COVID-19 and should have ignored it even more than he did.

https://www.dailykos...ndreds-each-day
https://donaldgmcnei...im-153a2ff62718

Officials Struggle to Regulate Pop-Up Covid Testing Sites — And Warn Patients to Beware
https://khn.org/news...nts-to-beware/ 
 

Laura Ingraham took particular delight in the fact that Gen. Mark Milley, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, tested positive for Covid-19.
 
In June, the Fox News host accused Milley of spreading “far-left Marxist racist ideology” in the U.S. military.
 
During Monday’s show, Ingraham introduced a recurring segment with Raymond Arroyo called “Positively Boosted,” during which the two highlight Covid-positive cases in people who are fully vaccinated and boosted.
 
While vaccinated people can test positive for Covid, they are far less likely to be hospitalized or die because of the virus. This fact, of course, was omitted from the “Positively Boosted” segment.
 
“All right, the triple vaxxed Joint Chief[s] chairman Mark Milley – our favorite, Mark Milley! – tested positive for Covid yesterday,” Ingraham said while clapping. “And who else? General David Berger, the Marine Corps commandant, also positively boosted.”
 
A graphic on the show indicated that Milley was experiencing “very minor symptoms.”

https://www.mediaite...y-has-covid-19/

Lara Logan, the former 60 Minutes correspondent who as of late has earned a reputation for pushing conspiracy theories at Fox News, has been dropped by talent agency UTA over controversial comments she made about Dr. Anthony Fauci.
The veteran journalist was dropped after she sparked controversy by comparing the top U.S. infectious diseases expert to Nazi doctor Josef Mengele on Fox News.
https://www.mediaite...octor-comments/



#20756 Moderation

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:29 AM

Deaths are up disproportionally to confirmed cases in BC.  If one didn’t know better, one might think Omicron is more deadly.

I am trying to understand and clarify what you mean.

 

What deaths were you saying are up disproportionally to confirmed cases in BC? Omicron vs Delta, Children under 5 vs Seniors or or .........

If you do not say what you are comparing it is difficult to understand what you mean.

 

I now understand that we agree that Delta is more deadly than Omicron?   based on  If one didn’t know better, one might think Omicron is more deadly.  



#20757 Danma

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:44 AM

Mega Yacht sales are directly relevant to COVID-19 in your world?

 

That explains quite a bit in terms of understanding your posts here in the forum.

Heh, indeed, there's a lot of correlation != causation confusion around here these days.

The fact that drug companies are making money hand-over-fist during the pandemic doesn't mean that the pandemic is being falsified or that the drug companies are running false narratives.

The fact that government plans are poorly conceived or are money sinks doesn't mean the government is intentionally padding their buddies' pockets.

The fact that government medical advice has changed so regularly doesn't mean they weren't giving advice in good faith at the time they gave it.

I mean, if those things are happening, they're happening, but THESE are not proof of them happening. Conspiracy theorists may connect A to B to C but the burden of proof still needs to be filled.

As Mike suggested above, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
 


Edited by Danma, 18 January 2022 - 09:45 AM.

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#20758 spanky123

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:45 AM

https://www.cbc.ca/n...nding-1.5827045

 

drop in the ocean I guess! 

 

240 billion dollars 

 

 

The amount of theft and fraud that has occurred over the past two years is staggering. A few small fry (like the Government employee who stole $20M) will be pursued but for the most part the extent of the fraud would be too much of an embarrassment to the Government.



#20759 Mike K.

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 10:02 AM

Heh, indeed, there's a lot of correlation != causation confusion around here these days.

The fact that drug companies are making money hand-over-fist during the pandemic doesn't mean that the pandemic is being falsified or that the drug companies are running false narratives.

The fact that government plans are poorly conceived or are money sinks doesn't mean the government is intentionally padding their buddies' pockets.

The fact that government medical advice has changed so regularly doesn't mean they weren't giving advice in good faith at the time they gave it.

I mean, if those things are happening, they're happening, but THESE are not proof of them happening. Conspiracy theorists may connect A to B to C but the burden of proof still needs to be filled.

As Mike suggested above, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
 

 

Granted, there are plenty of conspiracies out there, like what is alleged to have happened in Victoria that saw a major influx of individuals arrive during COVID who ended up dependent on local social services. There appears to be motive behind the growth of this sector and it has its origins at Victoria's own City Hall, allegedly, according to investigations carried out by CFAX.

 

But I can't get behind this population control stuff because the goal posts keep changing. Like I said before, first it was the virus itself, then it was the cure, now its government control impacting the population, and I'm certain soon it will be an economic collapse that will be the real sign of Agenda whatever. Stick to one thing if you're going to be selling us on a conspiracy and maybe don't be all over the place, and still expect your audience to follow along.


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Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#20760 Danma

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 10:14 AM

Granted, there are plenty of conspiracies out there, like what is alleged to have happened in Victoria that saw a major influx of individuals arrive during COVID who ended up dependent on local social services. There appears to be motive behind the growth of this sector and it has its origins at Victoria's own City Hall, allegedly, according to investigations carried out by CFAX.

For sure – if that's happening, then investigations are being done to find that out directly, rather than inferring it from Lisa Helps' choice of sandwich topping.

 

But I can't get behind this population control stuff because the goal posts keep changing. Like I said before, first it was the virus itself, then it was the cure, now its government control impacting the population, and I'm certain soon it will be an economic collapse that will be the real sign of Agenda whatever. Stick to one thing if you're going to be selling us on a conspiracy and maybe don't be all over the place, and still expect your audience to follow along.

 

Indeed. COVID conspiracists should look at Chemtrails, they've had a consistent message for decades! (which is, of course, that governments and airlines run a secret supply chain of brain altering chemicals that airlines spray secretly as part of their regular services over the population which make their brains susceptible to subconscious control techniques to enforce control over the population for nefarious means. It's insane, but at least it's consistent!)


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