26251 replies to this topic

[max.bravo]

Someone should tell Bonnie about this.
https://www.rt.com/n...etter-vaccines/

Natural Covid Delta immunity more effective than vaccination – CDC study

The study, published on Wednesday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), found that as the Delta variant became the dominant coronavirus strain during the second half of 2021, people who were vaccinated were six times less likely to catch Covid-19 than those who hadn’t been jabbed.

However, those who had been infected with an earlier variant of the coronavirus, but hadn’t been vaccinated, were between 15 and 29 times less likely to catch the virus.

A similar difference was noticed in hospitalization rates, with prior immunity conferring better protection against hospitalization than vaccination.

[Mike K.]

Russian Times?

Seriously, Max?

[amor de cosmos]

Someone should tell Bonnie about this.
https://www.rt.com/n...etter-vaccines/

why did you leave out the 2nd line which says "Despite contradicting previous advice from health officials, the study still insists that vaccination is the “safest strategy” against the coronavirus"
 
& it elaborates:

Despite its disadvantage compared to natural immunity, the CDC stressed that “vaccination remains the safest strategy” for preventing Covid-19 infections. This is because "having Covid the first time carries with it significant risks,” study co-author Dr. Eli Rosenberg told CNN. Likewise Dr. Erica Pan, state epidemiologist for the California Department of Public Health, recommended that even those with prior infection get vaccinated to ensure they get a layer of “additional protection.”

Edited by amor de cosmos, 21 January 2022 - 09:30 AM.

[Moderation]

Here is some more info about the report as reported by CNN. The major factor they suggest that was not  included in the review was that the effects of the first vaccination was on the decline. Thus a second vaccination.

 

 https://www.cnn.com/...tudy/index.html

[max.bravo]

Russian Times?

Seriously, Max?

It’s a study by the CDC. Is that good enough for you? Another example of MSM not picking up stories that don’t fit the narrative.

Here’s another for you. Look at how the UK weekly data paints a picture of vaccine effectiveness over time. This time try to Refute the data, not the website or the headline. https://dailyexpose....em-causing-ade/

[max.bravo]

This one is for seb specifically. A few pages back he suggested I discredited myself by referring to the vaccines as experimental gene therapy. Well, turns out the Bayer President of Pharmaceuticals agrees with me… Because they are literally experimental gene and cell therapies, not vaccines.

https://www.lifesite...n-public-trust/

The president of Bayer’s Pharmaceuticals Division told international “experts” during a globalist health conference that the mRNA COVID-19 shots are indeed “cell and gene therapy” marketed as “vaccines” to be palatable to the public.

Stefan Oelrich, president of Bayer’s Pharmaceuticals Division, made these comments at this year’s World Health Summit, which took place in Berlin from October 24-26 and hosted 6,000 people from 120 countries. Oelrich told his fellow international “experts” from academia, politics, and the private sector that the novel mRNA COVID “vaccines” are actually “cell and gene therapy” that would have otherwise been rejected by the public if not for a “pandemic” and favorable marketing.

[amor de cosmos]

It’s a study by the CDC. Is that good enough for you? Another example of MSM not picking up stories that don’t fit the narrative.

well if you consider CNN to not be mainstream media, and the narrative to be "don't get vaccinated" then I guess that story goes against the grain
 

https://www.lifesite...n-public-trust/

LifeSiteNews (or simply LifeSite) is a Canadian Catholic far-right anti-abortion advocacy website and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia...ki/LifeSiteNews

Edited by amor de cosmos, 21 January 2022 - 10:16 AM.

[TFord]

Morning Max 

 

Fantastic to see them admit what we have been saying all along, no doubt many of the folk on this forum will refuse to believe it though.

 

They are entering the Kool aid hangover phase, it ain't pleasant. Billy Connolly has a brilliant piece on this, I'll post it later. 

 

Thanks for staying the course on this forum Max 

 

Bravo!

 

 

 

TFord 

[TFord]

well if you consider CNN to not be mainstream media, and the narrative to be "don't get vaccinated" then I guess that story goes against the grain
 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/LifeSiteNews

 

Amor 

 

I have a huge slice of humble pie warming in the oven for you!

 

You've spent the last 24 months posting article links, Its the least engaging form of posting. I can honesty say I haven't read or engaged in a single post you've made. 

 

Nothing personal though

 

How do you really feel buddy, how has the last 24 months affected you?

 

 

 

TFord 

[Moderation]

There is a difference between the pfizer or other manufacturer controlled study efficacy of 95% and real world effectiveness results.

This would be expected. Efficacy and effectiveness are not the same thing . Manufacturer results are often incorrectly referred to as effectiveness rather than efficacy.

If any of the real world information was collected again on another population of 100,00 people you would expect the results to be different  again to some degree.. 

Controlled studies require you to compare the results between as similar or equal groups as possible. (random selection into each group). Differences are expected in the real word evaluation compared to the controlled efficacy study because the groups compared are  not randomly divided.(Each group as much the same as possible.)

Finding a different result in real world setting in no way means the efficacy study percent reduction in the chance of infection was wrong.

 

Here is an partial explanation.

I agree that most people do not understand the math. Here is my effort to explain in a way that most people may understand.

 

First there is a difference between between efficacy and effective as the article mentioned but they are similar.

 

Efficacy is measured in a controlled often clinical setting where subjects are, randomly divided into two equal groups. One group gets the vaccine and the other group gets a placebo injection (no vaccine). Then a certain time is waited for exposure to covid.

If both groups were 100 people and 2 in the vaccination group  and 10 in the unvaccinated group were diagnosed with covid then an efficacy number is calculated. 2 vs 10 means that there were 8 less covid among the vaccinated and the efficacy is calculated and expressed as 80%. This means that you have an 80% lower chance of getting covid if you are vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated.

 

Effectiveness is  measured  in the same way to show how well the vaccine works in the real world. It will often be different from the controlled experiment efficacy number. 

 

A problem with using these terms and numbers is that many people relate this to the individuals percentage chance of infection. They mistakenly believe that with a vaccine that is 80% effective they will only have  20% chance of getting infected. What it means is that the vaccine has reduced your chance of getting ill with a particular covid variant compared to the unvaccinated by 80%,

 

 

[amor de cosmos]

re: stefan oelrich, here's what he actually said at the world health summit in october. he refers to the quick development of the mrna vaccines being a model for other treatments, for example gene therapies. why? because a couple years ago 95% of people would have disapproved of it, but now with the development of these covid-19 vaccines as inspiration, the cell and gene therapies bayer is working on will hopefully improve. but don't take my word for it, here he is in his own words:
https://www.youtube....wuv0Qc#t=07m48s
 

Amor 
 
I have a huge slice of humble pie warming in the oven for you!

sounds terrific. when can i expect it? if you have anything to share why don't you just post it?
 

You've spent the last 24 months posting article links, Its the least engaging form of posting. I can honesty say I haven't read or engaged in a single post you've made. 
 
Nothing personal though

well that's your choice isn't it? are you trying to say i've been wasting my time, as if i post all that for your benefit but you don't care? i read all that stuff for my own benefit, and share what i think is interesting. if anyone else thinks it's interesting that's great & if not, well it's no loss to me is it, if I'm just interested in the topic?
 

How do you really feel buddy, how has the last 24 months affected you?
 
TFord

not very much actually, but i'm one of the lucky ones

Edited by amor de cosmos, 21 January 2022 - 12:38 PM.

[Moderation]

This one is for seb specifically. A few pages back he suggested I discredited myself by referring to the vaccines as experimental gene therapy. Well, turns out the Bayer President of Pharmaceuticals agrees with me… Because they are literally experimental gene and cell therapies, not vaccines.

https://www.lifesite...n-public-trust/
 

mRNA vaccines and gene therapy. You both can be correct at the same time. You may not have made clear what each of you mean?

Here is one source that has some explanation that you both could use to say you are correct

 

https://www.reuters....e-idUSL1N2PH16N

Edited by Moderation, 21 January 2022 - 11:14 AM.

[dasmo]

Unacceptable delay
Pfizer’s pivotal covid vaccine trial was funded by the company and designed, run, analysed, and authored by Pfizer employees. The company and the contract research organisations that carried out the trial hold all the data.

And Pfizer has indicated that it will not begin entertaining requests for trial data until May 2025, 24 months after the primary study completion date, which is listed on ClinicalTrials.gov as 15 May 2023 (NCT04368728).

 

The lack of access to data is consistent across vaccine manufacturers.

 

Moderna says data “may be available … with publication of the final study results in 2022.”18 Datasets will be available “upon request and subject to review once the trial is complete,” which has an estimated primary completion date of 27 October 2022 (NCT04470427).

 

As of 31 December 2021, AstraZeneca may be ready to entertain requests for data from several of its large phase III trials. But actually obtaining data could be slow going. As its website explains, “timelines vary per request and can take up to a year upon full submission of the request.”

Underlying data for covid-19 therapeutics are similarly hard to find

https://www.bmj.com/...nt/376/bmj.o102

Edited by dasmo, 21 January 2022 - 11:13 AM.

[TFord]

mRNA vaccines and gene therapy. You both can be correct at the same time. You may not have made clear what each of you mean?

Here is one source that has some explanation that you both could use to say you are correct

 

Correction to come

 

Blur the lines in order to turn the narrative on its head. No, I don't think so.

 

You'll soon be saying that natural immunity is better than the vaccine.

 

 

TFord 

[dasmo]

Unacceptable delay
Pfizer’s pivotal covid vaccine trial was funded by the company and designed, run, analysed, and authored by Pfizer employees. The company and the contract research organisations that carried out the trial hold all the data.

And Pfizer has indicated that it will not begin entertaining requests for trial data until May 2025, 24 months after the primary study completion date, which is listed on ClinicalTrials.gov as 15 May 2023 (NCT04368728).

 

The lack of access to data is consistent across vaccine manufacturers.

 

Moderna says data “may be available … with publication of the final study results in 2022.”18 Datasets will be available “upon request and subject to review once the trial is complete,” which has an estimated primary completion date of 27 October 2022 (NCT04470427).

 

As of 31 December 2021, AstraZeneca may be ready to entertain requests for data from several of its large phase III trials. But actually obtaining data could be slow going. As its website explains, “timelines vary per request and can take up to a year upon full submission of the request.”

Underlying data for covid-19 therapeutics are similarly hard to find

https://www.bmj.com/...nt/376/bmj.o102

Transparency should be before censorship. 

[TFord]

How did Alex Jones know?

 

 

He basically laid out the events of the last two years in a video rant from 2018. Was this pandemic planned? if so did someone leak the details to him?  

 

How did he know?

 

 

TFord 

[Moderation]

mRNA vaccines and gene therapy. You both can be correct at the same time. You may not have made clear what each of you mean?

Here is one source that has some explanation that you both could use to say you are correct

 

https://www.reuters....e-idUSL1N2PH16N

[TFord]

Transparency should be before censorship. 

 

they are above the law 

 

 

TFord 

[TFord]

 

mRNA vaccines and gene therapy. You both can be correct at the same time. You may not have made clear what each of you mean?

Here is one source that has some explanation that you both could use to say you are correct

 

https://www.reuters....e-idUSL1N2PH16N

 

 

Reuters, really? 

 

come on 

 

 

TFord 

[TFord]

No such thing.

7

Without a double vax card, you're still as good as unvaccinated when the Federal/Provincial mandatory vaccination legislation comes into effect.

Personally, I'd also like to see the COVID unvaccinated placed at the very bottom of the ladder when it comes to hospital admissions of any type ... no vaccination, no admission if any other illness or injury requires a hospital bed.

 

It's time for this bullshit to end once and for all.

Let the unvaccinated die off, and leave the vaccinated to rule the roost as those who have been smart enough to get vaccinated (which was essentially everybody up until 2021) have throughout history.

 

Here's another clown on this forum with a post in which he calls for a restriction in healthcare, and the death of all unvaccinated Canadians. A final solution you might say for upwards of seven million human beings. 

 

I was disgusted when I read this, deeply saddened by it. I realized how it must feel to be oppressed and to fear for your life. Haven't we spent a lifetime working against ideologies like this? 

 

It has taken me a while to come to terms with and re-post it. 

 

 

 

TFord