419 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Sandy Hall of CFAX said she felt unsafe at the protest yesterday, as a member of the media. She said she had been singled out and described as media by an announcer, and felt targeted.

Not good.

[Mike K.]

What's going on is the protesters are being strategic. Art of War. Make it unpredictable. Instead of a big protest that fizzles out, you have guerilla protests that can pop up at any time. Keeps people on edge.

Highly doubtful.

They’ve been there for days. The underpinnings of being in Victoria is to disrupt government, so after proclaiming yesterday they were there to stay the sudden about face doesn’t appear strategic, it’s what the government and society wants.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the threat of a large scale criminal investigation has soured the desire to remain at the Leg.

[RFS]

as usual the reason for the protest escalation to roads etc. is the enabling stance. if police never move in the protesters of course become emboldened and then try for the next most outrageous location.

protesters have thousands of places to protest in canada where they will be heard. they should go to those places and not block roads railways offices and other buildings.

I’d say the police have gone beyond enabling and are actively aiding the blockaders. In Vancouver the blockade on Hastings was more a police blockade than anything else. And then up island the police arrested a resident for daring to clear their junk off the public highway.

[rmpeers]

And good for Del for calling Isitt out for attempting to silence victims who might have been assaulted - "hogwash". Isitt pulled a similar victim-silencing stunt during tent city, telling media he wasn't aware of any concerns. The man has ZERO concept of right and wrong. I have no doubt if he had been mayor during Elsner he would have tried to silence those victims, too. Violence is good, just as long as it doesn't happen to him and benefits him politically, apparently. Presumably Counc. Dubow shares this view?

Edited by rmpeers, 12 February 2020 - 08:43 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the threat of a large scale criminal investigation has soured the desire to remain at the Leg.

 

oh ya that's very possible. scatter like cockroaches when the light comes on.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 February 2020 - 08:46 AM.

[Jackerbie]

I’d say the police have gone beyond enabling and are actively aiding the blockaders. In Vancouver the blockade on Hastings was more a police blockade than anything else. And then up island the police arrested a resident for daring to clear their junk off the public highway.

 

The main protest in Vancouver was a blockade of Cambie and Broadway. The intersection has been closed on and off since Sunday, and was closed for 16 hours yesterday. Not sure what Translink's response was, as Broadway is a trolley bus corridor and you can't just reroute those around the blockade.

 

Today the protest has moved to the BC Supreme Court building.

[RFS]

The main protest in Vancouver was a blockade of Cambie and Broadway. The intersection has been closed on and off since Sunday, and was closed for 16 hours yesterday. Not sure what Translink's response was, as Broadway is a trolley bus corridor and you can't just reroute those around the blockade.

Today the protest has moved to the BC Supreme Court building.

Hastings was also blocked

[Awaiting Juno]

What's going on is the protesters are being strategic. Art of War. Make it unpredictable. Instead of a big protest that fizzles out, you have guerilla protests that can pop up at any time. Keeps people on edge. 

 

Domestic social terrorism.  

[RFS]

https://www.theglobe...eline-protests/

 

Canada’s retailers and manufacturers are braced for shutdowns and dwindling supplies as a handful of protest blockades at railways and ports brings much of the country’s rail-freight network to a halt.

Industry groups on Wednesday said the protests in support of gas pipeline opponents in B.C. have halted rail shipments of perishable food, chlorine for water treatment and raw materials for manufacturers.

[shoeflack]

This Council and Ben Isitt do a lot of annoying things, but very few get my blood boiling to the point that I actually shoot off an email to Council. Ben's series of tweets last night and this morning got me to that point.

 

I would suggest as many of you as possible who disagree with Ben's comments email council and request that one of them introduce a motion to condemn his comments and request he apologize (or resign if you fancy). His accusations of VicPD engaging in deliberate malice are so far off base...just insane really.

[Mike K.]

Isitt this morning: “I stand by my comments, which respond to a growing problem of "mission creep" with VicPD management, engaging in a PR campaign against peaceful demonstrators, city councillors & others advocating for change. These kind of political communications are outside of VicPD's mandate.”

The mission creep Isitt is reacting to is VicPD asking for witnesses to come forward who may have seen assaults or who were assaulted. Sounds like a reasonable request to make when allegations surface, but the allegations are troubling to Isitt in that his version of events being 100% peaceful now come under fire.

[Bernard]

The number of active protesters is not that high and what we could be seeing is simply the petering out of the protest on the legislature lawn.

 

One thing I am trying to find is a list of who all the current hereditary chiefs are (and who is next in line for the chieftainship).  The Wet'suwet'en have 5 clans with 13 houses with hereditary chiefs with 38 house territories.  I am also trying to find anything that will explain which House territories the pipeline is going through.    The level of information I would like to see is not out there.

[SamCB]

Is anyone surprised this is occurring? Look at the situation that's been brewing... this is just the beginning imo.

 

Our governments say Reconciliation, but what they really mean is: "we'll give you some concessions to say sorry for the past, but your little First Nations title things remain under the authority of Canada, ok? Sure, go ahead and have "Aboriginal Title" over your traditional territories, but Federal and Provincial jurisdiction always supersedes it. In other words, we ain't giving up the land."

 

This isn't a good enough offer for the highly educated and well organized group of Indigenous activists (and their supporters). I wonder if our leaders know this. These FN activists (and there are many) don't recognize the legitimacy of Canada-- they see Canada as an illegal occupier. They won't settle for anything less than full sovereign control of their "traditional territories" -- which, in BC, is nearly the entire province. Including the lot on which my house is built.

 

This is just beginning imo. These very smart FN activists will use every legitimate channel available within the Canadian legal system to achieve their aims. But they will also gladly step outside of the laws of Canada and perform illegal occupations... because they genuinely don't believe in "Canada." 

 

For the record, I am very sympathetic to the FN of Canada. I have tried to make connections with the FN community in this area. I do the traditional territory acknowledgment with earnestness. If I try to imagine myself in their shoes, I would probably be fighting for return of my ancestral lands to my people. 

 

So, I guess I'm just confused as to what our politicians think is a realistic outcome of "reconciliation." And if they are not planning to cede control of crown lands back to the First Nations, how do they intend to stop this new generation of FN activists from simply taking the land back? I can't see an end-state of this "reconciliation" that looks both realistic and satisfactory to both parties.

[Mike K.]

No, it’s not or very, very hard to find.

So if we have individuals like Isitt providing us with that information, just how reliable is it? He believes accusations of assault and harm is “#fakenews,” as per his copied and pasted twitter message from yesterday.

[SamCB]

 

One thing I am trying to find is a list of who all the current hereditary chiefs are (and who is next in line for the chieftainship).  The Wet'suwet'en have 5 clans with 13 houses with hereditary chiefs with 38 house territories.  I am also trying to find anything that will explain which House territories the pipeline is going through.    The level of information I would like to see is not out there.

 

I believe the hereditary chiefs are listed here as the board of directors of the office of the wet'suwet'en... though I am not positive about this. http://www.wetsuwete...d-of-directors/

[sebberry]

Adam Stirling was beautifully fired up this morning about Ben's tweets.  

[Mike K.]

Is anyone surprised this is occurring? Look at the situation that's been brewing... this is just the beginning imo.

Our governments say Reconciliation, but what they really mean is: "we'll give you some concessions to say sorry for the past, but your little First Nations title things remain under the authority of Canada, ok? Sure, go ahead and have "Aboriginal Title" over your traditional territories, but Federal and Provincial jurisdiction always supersedes it. In other words, we ain't giving up the land."

This isn't a good enough offer for the highly educated and well organized group of Indigenous activists (and their supporters). I wonder if our leaders know this. These FN activists (and there are many) don't recognize the legitimacy of Canada-- they see Canada as an illegal occupier. They won't settle for anything less than full sovereign control of their "traditional territories" -- which, in BC, is nearly the entire province. Including the lot on which my house is built.

This is just beginning imo. These very smart FN activists will use every legitimate channel available within the Canadian legal system to achieve their aims. But they will also gladly step outside of the laws of Canada and perform illegal occupations... because they genuinely don't believe in "Canada."

For the record, I am very sympathetic to the FN of Canada. I have tried to make connections with the FN community in this area. I do the traditional territory acknowledgment with earnestness. If I try to imagine myself in their shoes, I would probably be fighting for return of my ancestral lands to my people.

So, I guess I'm just confused as to what our politicians think is a realistic outcome of "reconciliation." And if they are not planning to cede control of crown lands back to the First Nations, how do they intend to stop this new generation of FN activists from simply taking the land back? I can't see an end-state of this "reconciliation" that looks both realistic and satisfactory to both parties.

You’ve just described the history of civilization.

Someone’s territory is theirs until it isn’t. Historically the exchange of land came with violence and force.

Prior to the arrival of Europeans to “Canada” land control among First Nations was also distributed through force. Warring nations expanded their territories or lost them to stronger forces. Other nations were nomadic and traversed vast territories in pursuit of resources. This played out over thousands of years.

We can go back to exerting influence over land through force, or we can accept that money, the building of wealth and economic prosperity are far more beneficial to our collective society, and the 20 elected chiefs of the Wet’suwet’en territory would appear to agree.

[Victoria Watcher]

So, I guess I'm just confused as to what our politicians think is a realistic outcome of "reconciliation." And if they are not planning to cede control of crown lands back to the First Nations, how do they intend to stop this new generation of FN activists from simply taking the land back? 

 

there's no money in that.  look at zimbabwe. 

 

the money is in continuing the "struggle" forever - see palestinian/israeli conflict.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 February 2020 - 09:53 AM.

[sukika]

VicPD tweeted they were investigating reports of assault and injury, and while I'm not an academic like Ben and English is my second language, I understand that it isn't the same as VicPD saying people have been assaulted. Investigating reports is an inherent part of their job, and so is public safety.  If I report a crime to the police, whether it be assault, theft, etc., should they not investigate it because there were no Ben Isitts around to see it? 

[Bernard]

I believe the hereditary chiefs are listed here as the board of directors of the office of the wet'suwet'en... though I am not positive about this. http://www.wetsuwete...d-of-directors/

Only some of them are listed on the website,  There are 13 but they are not all listed,  There should be a clear indication of who is next in line.

 

I am also interested how many of the hereditary chiefs are also members of band councils - it was reasonably common in the past.

 

One thing that no one is noting is the absence of First Nations taking a position on the Wet'suwet'en conflict (other than some individuals).   The First Nations Summit, AFN, Wet'suwet'en bands, and all the neighhouring First Nations are quiet.   I leave that to others to read what they want out of that