4570 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

what would you have us do now though?

it’s done.

politicians in New York are getting a pass (and $5 million book deal). hard to see how ours won’t get same.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2021 - 01:45 PM.

[m3m]

CRA audits of ultra-wealthy Canadians yield zero prosecutions or convictions

That doesn’t mean they weren’t successful in raising tax revenues from those they were targeting.

[vortoozo]

Well I'm honoured you'd say that

 

Fellas, I get the point you're all making, I really do. But the press is not doing Canadians any favours - during an election year - by omitting how the initial roll-out was fraught with problems and to this day is causing issues with vaccine mixing and the potential for AZ problems and vaccine verification. It is not the media's job, I don't think, to focus only on the good but not address the bad (like our position being 45th internationally for full vaccinations; that should be the concern for Canadians, not how fast we're catching up to #44).

 

I think there's plenty of grumbling in the press about how things were and are being handled. As usual, some of it's warranted and some of it's not.

 

The initial roll out was fraught with problems nearly everywhere, outside of a couple of countries that had their own supply and ensured that it did not get shared with others.

That would still have been the case whether the Conservatives, NDP, Greens or Bloc held the most seats.

 

Vaccine shortages are happening everywhere:

How the Pfizer shortage will affect the vaccine rollout | The Week UK

Germany Faces BioNTech COVID Vaccine Shortage (european-views.com)

Vaccine Shortages Hit E.U. in a Setback for Its Immunization Race - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Hardly a reflection of leadership in this country.

[spanky123]

That doesn’t mean they weren’t successful in raising tax revenues from those they were targeting.

 

Quite possible that some people volunteered to pay taxes owing without being prosecuted but then you would think the CRA would be bragging about how much they brought in!

[Mike K.]

I think there's plenty of grumbling in the press about how things were and are being handled. As usual, some of it's warranted and some of it's not.

 

The initial roll out was fraught with problems nearly everywhere, outside of a couple of countries that had their own supply and ensured that it did not get shared with others.

That would still have been the case whether the Conservatives, NDP, Greens or Bloc held the most seats.

 

Vaccine shortages are happening everywhere:

How the Pfizer shortage will affect the vaccine rollout | The Week UK

Germany Faces BioNTech COVID Vaccine Shortage (european-views.com)

Vaccine Shortages Hit E.U. in a Setback for Its Immunization Race - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Hardly a reflection of leadership in this country.

 

Then our leadership should have been honest about the problems. They were not, and that's not right.

[Mike K.]

what would you have us do now though?

it’s done.

politicians in New York are getting a pass (and $5 million book deal). hard to see how ours won’t get same.

 

Yeah, it's crazy.

[vortoozo]

Then our leadership should have been honest about the problems. They were not, and that's not right.

 

Interesting. Where do you feel that they were not?

[LJ]

 

Canada may have started down that path out of necessity, rather than brilliant planning, given how slow we were getting started. But we have delivered more total doses than most countries, and we are currently delivering more doses per day than any country. It's reasonable to criticize how slowly we got started. But for the overall relevant time period, from the availability of the vaccine through today, we have done much better than average.

 

You don't declare someone the winner of a marathon because they sprinted the first kilometer. 

We are? You mean per 100k of population or something like that?

[Mike K.]

Interesting. Where do you feel that they were not?

When they said they had secured sufficient vaccine supply, over and over.

Here’s an example from December:

Now he is ahead of schedule, and Canada is on top of global rankings for vaccine contracts. With the 20 million additional Moderna doses, Canada has secured enough to inoculate 154 million people, assuming the vaccine’s its made reservations for work in clinical trials and are cleared by health regulators.

It’s enough doses for more than 400 per cent of its population, ahead of the U.K.’s 295 per cent and Australia’s 269 per cent, according to Bloomberg’s vaccine tracker.

These were the stats the government was releasing. These were the stats they were defending when media questioned the veracity of their efforts.

BNN Bloomberg: https://www.google.c...533041.amp.html

[vortoozo]

When they said they had secured sufficient vaccine supply, over and over.

Here’s an example from December:

These were the stats the government was releasing. These were the stats they were defending when media questioned the veracity of their efforts.

BNN Bloomberg: https://www.google.c...533041.amp.html

 

I think you might be misremembering. Canada purchased a basket of vaccines from several different suppliers. At the time of procurement, no one knew what would be approved or when, hence the significant numbers.

 

They made that very clear at the time, along with a timeline that extended to the end of September for all Canadians to have received their first dose. That was subsequently moved up a few times when schedules etc were firmed up.

[Mike K.]

No need to rely on my bad memory, the article spells it out pretty well.

[phx]

The covid crisis didn't end on February 14th. 

It could have and would have, if Sock Boy had ordered vaccine from a reputable source instead of China.

 

The third wave of COVID was entirely preventable.

[vortoozo]

No need to rely on my bad memory, the article spells it out pretty well.

 

The only reference to timeline in the article is that the additional 20 million doses accelerated the timeline.

Here we are, with every Canadian that wants a first dose having received one or able to get one without a wait. And it's well before September.

 

All Canadians who want a shot will be vaccinated by September 2021, public health agency says | CBC News (December 15th)

 

 

"Based on current data, by the end of Q3 2021, Canada projects having a sufficient number doses to be able to offer a vaccination to every Canadian," a spokesperson for PHAC said in a statement to CBC News. The "Q3" refers to the third quarter of the calendar year — July, August and September.

 

Canada has signed purchase agreements with seven different pharmaceutical companies for up to 418 million doses of the various shots under development — an insurance policy against the possibility that some of the vaccines in development prove to be ineffective in clinical trials. Some supplies could also be donated to developing countries.

The September date is premised on the companies with which Canada has signed purchase agreements — Pfizer, Moderna, Medicago, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson, Novavax and Sanofi-GlaxoSmithKline — securing regulatory approvals and meeting planned timelines for the delivery of doses, the PHAC spokesperson said.

[vortoozo]

It could have and would have, if Sock Boy had ordered vaccine from a reputable source instead of China.

 

The third wave of COVID was entirely preventable.

 

What vaccine was ordered from China?

Canada did have an agreement to work on development of a vaccine with China at one point, but that was outside the scope of the other orders. The agreement with CanSino involved NRC producing a few hundred thousand vaccines domestically.

 

Here's a good backgrounder: Where did Canada's vaccine effort actually go wrong? - Macleans.ca

There's both criticism and praise in the article. Mike, it will likely be of interest to you as well.

 

Among it's conclusions:

 

It’s hard to look at the NRC’s track record over the past year as a success. At the same time, the NRC’s role was to partner with companies in Canada looking to pursue vaccine candidates — and that’s what it did.  It is abundantly clear that, while time and effort went into the CanSino project, it was by no means the only project Canada pursued. It wasn’t even the only project that the NRC pursued.

It’s clear that Canada signed its contracts relatively quickly, it picked a portfolio of vaccines that was wisely varied, it paid a reasonable amount for its doses, and its delivery schedules were both ambitious and respected.

But it’s important we don’t walk away from this pandemic with the impression that everything we did was a disaster. Because it certainly wasn’t.

[Mike K.]

The only reference to timeline in the article is that the additional 20 million doses accelerated the timeline.
Here we are, with every Canadian that wants a first dose having received one or able to get one without a wait. And it's well before September.

All Canadians who want a shot will be vaccinated by September 2021, public health agency says | CBC News (December 15th)

That’s right, we had a two month period of virtually nil vaccinations because of bungled supply, while other nations were vaccinating millions (the US and UK tens of millions), and we will -not- reach 75% double vaccination in September. We’re not dealing with periods of many months or years here, but the two month delay was a serious muck up that has pushed our border reopening to late 2021. There’s even a chance we don’t hit the 75% DV threshold until early 2022.

The repercussions of that include reliance on AZ, and vaccine mixing. Neither are ideal scenarios for Canadians and the mixing of vaccines is most definitely -not- ideal.

So what else are Canadians going to sacrifice in a rush to hit 75% by the end of 2021?

[Mike K.]

Victoria’s cruise boss is asking, where’s my government?

Robertson said there is also growing frustration because of changing goalposts, noting at one point they were told a federal reopening plan would be unveiled when 75 per cent of Canadians had received one COVID-19 vaccine dose and more than 20 per cent had both doses.

“We’re there and still there’s no plan,” said Robertson. “In talking with the cruise lines over the last few weeks, there’s frustration there, too — they want certainty. It mystifies me that we’re getting no action out of Ottawa.”

Vortoozo, give the man a call and tell him it’s all in his head, then send him an article praising the government’s cruise game plan.

[vortoozo]

That’s right, we had a two month period of virtually nil vaccinations because of bungled supply, while other nations were vaccinating millions (the US and UK tens of millions), and we will -not- reach 75% double vaccination in September. We’re not dealing with periods of many months or years here, but the two month delay was a serious muck up that has pushed our border reopening to late 2021. There’s even a chance we don’t hit the 75% DV threshold until early 2022.

The repercussions of that include reliance on AZ, and vaccine mixing. Neither are ideal scenarios for Canadians and the mixing of vaccines is most definitely -not- ideal.

So what else are Canadians going to sacrifice in a rush to hit 75% by the end of 2021?

 

We are on track to reach 75% of eligible people (12+) fully vaccinated by next month; this was confirmed yesterday by Dr. Henry.

Nationally, we will reach it in early August if not earlier.

Canada Races Toward Key Covid-19 Vaccination Milestone for Reopening U.S. Border - Bloomberg

[Ismo07]

Well I'm honoured you'd say that

 

Fellas, I get the point you're all making, I really do. But the press is not doing Canadians any favours - during an election year - by omitting how the initial roll-out was fraught with problems and to this day is causing issues with vaccine mixing and the potential for AZ problems and vaccine verification. It is not the media's job, I don't think, to focus only on the good but not address the bad (like our position being 45th internationally for full vaccinations; that should be the concern for Canadians, not how fast we're catching up to #44).

 

But they already mentioned that, why keep saying "look how great we are doing now but remember how bad we were in February when the US was so much better?  Trudeau lied so badly or failed us.  Though we are the top nation for single doses now and have a very low death rate compared to the world so you should vote for him now."

 

The media doesn't need to keep harping because we are past that and it doesn't matter.  Let the NDP and Conservatives remind voters.  You think there will be an election this year?

[Ismo07]

That’s right, we had a two month period of virtually nil vaccinations because of bungled supply, while other nations were vaccinating millions (the US and UK tens of millions), and we will -not- reach 75% double vaccination in September. We’re not dealing with periods of many months or years here, but the two month delay was a serious muck up that has pushed our border reopening to late 2021. There’s even a chance we don’t hit the 75% DV threshold until early 2022.

The repercussions of that include reliance on AZ, and vaccine mixing. Neither are ideal scenarios for Canadians and the mixing of vaccines is most definitely -not- ideal.

So what else are Canadians going to sacrifice in a rush to hit 75% by the end of 2021?

 

You can call it a muck up and blame the government but I don't think any other party could have done better for Canada (or worse mind you).  We aren't in the same boat as the UK or the US so that's a ridiculous comparison.  By the numbers it looks like we are on track to make it before September especially if the US is nearing being done we will get more vaccines.  The only thing that keeps us from 75% is people who don't want the vaccine.  By September we might likely be the country with the most double doses %-wise with the exception of those tiny countries...  If we make the September promise made will you then change your tune?  They didn't promise a Feb or Mar total, only a September.  How we got there shouldn't really matter but tough to blame them for production issues.  That's like blaming Amazon when they are out of stock.

[Mike K.]

But they already mentioned that, why keep saying "look how great we are doing now but remember how bad we were in February when the US was so much better?  Trudeau lied so badly or failed us.  Though we are the top nation for single doses now and have a very low death rate compared to the world so you should vote for him now."

 

The media doesn't need to keep harping because we are past that and it doesn't matter.  Let the NDP and Conservatives remind voters.  You think there will be an election this year?

 

It does matter, very much so, to the families of those who died due to the delays, and the people now faced with making a mixed vaccine decision that is not fully supported by the leading scientific community. We shouldn't have to make this uneducated decision based on a hunch everything is likely to be ok.