63 replies to this topic

[max.bravo]

https://www.reddit.c...towards_asians/

This reddit post contains many examples of people saying they’ve experienced more racism in Victoria than elsewhere (the states, other cities in canada).

That was surprising to me, but reading on, I see that some examples of racism were obvious (slurs), while others were less obvious things- one is an elderly woman assuming when someone says they got a nanny, the nanny would be filipino.

Is Victoria more racist than other places? If so, is it overt racism, or accidental/due to ignorance? Is there a difference?

[sukika]

I haven't spent enough time in other cities to be able to compare, but racism is something I've experienced here starting in elementary school.  I've been called racial slurs, made fun of for my appearance, told not to speak Chinese, etc. but those occasions are rare.  

 

Most of what I've experienced I think is due to ignorance, but it's really frustrating to deal with it on a regular basis.  People are often assuming I'm not from here, sometimes followed up with a compliment on how well I speak English, asking if I know a Chinese person they went to school with in Ontario, telling me they went to school with someone who was Chinese,  telling me how they've been to <insert southeast asian country here>, greeting me in Mandarin, Japanese, or another language that I don't speak.  These things aren't coming up in a social setting where we're getting to know each other, it's the stranger on the bus or the person in line at the grocery store.

 

It was worse when I was younger, because being a young asian female brings out all the creeps who think we're exotic and submissive and all those other stereotypes.

[rjag]

Thanks for sharing Sukika.

 

I had very similar experiences moving here from Scotland at age 15. Lots of fun of my accent, asking if I owned a kilt or had eaten Haggis...and what do you mean you dont drink Scotch! 

 

Also been asked due to my also being of Jewish heritage did that make me twice as cheap. 

 

Yup, also got the 'did I know their cousin who lives in Aberdeen?' 'Can I look under your kilt?' 'You're Scots, you must be a good Union man?' 'do you really hate the English?' 

 

One of the things about moving to a new country as a teen was I developed an ability to mimic other accents, not always intentionally but more because most couldnt understand Gutter Glaswegian so that was the only way I could converse but some folks would give me a sideways look of disapproval..

 

Its funny, I never really looked at those experiences as racism, more classism but maybe thats because being a Brit, class, religion and schooling ranked up there with race.

[Rob Randall]

As a person of Scottish descent myself I can confirm Scot is not a race.

[sukika]

Rjag, I’m think on the same page as you as I don’t consider most of my experiences as racism other than the super obvious ones. Maybe also the creepy ones.

I think that most people are good and have good intentions, and should be given the benefit of the doubt. But it could also be that I’m used to it, so someone who hasn’t experienced it before may disagree with me.

[rjag]

Rjag, I’m think on the same page as you as I don’t consider most of my experiences as racism other than the super obvious ones. Maybe also the creepy ones.

I think that most people are good and have good intentions, and should be given the benefit of the doubt. But it could also be that I’m used to it, so someone who hasn’t experienced it before may disagree with me.

 

Yup, I agree with you, it gets annoying and creepy but it can also turn pretty quickly depending on the situation. Take care

[rjag]

As a person of Scottish descent myself I can confirm Scot is not a race.

 

Yes its a generic term, perhaps I should have clarified, being an Ulster-Scot (which is an ethnic group) and Ashkenazi I can understand being the object of stereotyping

Edited by rjag, 14 April 2021 - 06:04 PM.

[UDeMan]

My friend is Russian and as soon as he mentions it people assume he is a hacker or scammer. The comments he gets are crazy.

[AllseeingEye]

I rather doubt Victoria is any more or less racist than anywhere else; racism is not the exclusively domain of white folks here or anywhere else; it is part of the human condition and I would be very surprised to find any culture/nation/city anywhere on the planet that exhibits an utter lack of racist attitudes, platitudes, behaviors or commentary. Some places obviously are more overt about the latter and I would hope this area is not among them but really how do you quantify that?

 

Years ago I dated a Canadian woman of German extraction; I lost count of many times she and/or I were asked if her father was a U-boat commander in the war. One dick went so far as to ask whether dad was a death camp commandant. .

 

Another friend of English extraction loved to trot out right in front of her that tired old Brit meme about the Englishman and the German watching the 1966 world cup where West German team lost to England in the final, at which point the German says something to the effect that one day we'll beat you at your national sport and the Anglais responds "well....we've already beaten you twice at yours". Fun times. Except if you were a German-Canadian.

 

Having lived in Vancouver (twice) the stories I could recount about certain elements of the Indo-Canadian community attitude towards the local Chinese-Canadian population, and vice versa, would mortify you. A friend of Chinese background at the time put it more bluntly - "there is a reason WE live in Richmond and THEY live in Surrey". Ouch. And I've met plenty of Chinese, Korean and other Asians who were not shy about their highly negative feelings regarding the Japanese, a continuing hangover from Japanese historic and particularly wartime atrocities committed against, well, virtually all of them, especially China.

 

Spend time in any medium or especially large US city, and if you are white you'll experience almost immediately white privilege in any interaction with police forces particularly.

 

My experience with the polizei in LA, Houston and Pensacola FLA has never been anything but positive; but in Pensacola the same two patrol cops who were sweet as pie with me in response to my questions, went immediately into "red alert mode" with trigger hands on the holster flaps when a middle aged black couple and two young toddlers standing behind me, also had a few questions for them. Like me they were tourists. Walking away I made come comment to the wife about "wow....do you get that treatment routinely?" To which she responded by rolling her eyes and saying "In this country? Honey, please! All. The. &^%$^%$#. Time". 

 

IMO about all any of us can do is to stop, think and act with care, respect and attention and with some fore-thought in any situation where something we say or do has the potential to hurt someone from a different cultural background.

 

Growing up in Victoria as one of those "privileged" white folk I don't specifically recall any incident aimed specifically at non-white kids in school (not that there were many of them here in the 1960's!). What I do remember vividly though were the schoolyard insults and taunts and bullying aimed at so-called "retards", "fat" kids - both very common - and in particular in junior HS, one poor kid who was mercilessly labelled and harassed for years as a "homo" (turned out he wasn't). I lost count of the number of times he was "called out" (1960's kid-speak for someone challenging you to a fight after school)......

 

Recognize that no culture is perfect and that our words and actions do matter and we all need to constantly strive to be better individuals. Just my .2...

[Victoria Watcher]

your 20 cents?

[AllseeingEye]

your 20 cents?

 

Nope after the new HW tank debacle I only have .2 (two) cents left....

[LJ]

I think you can break it down a little further, who among us hasn't told a newfie joke?

 

But when we go to the states and all the guys are saying "eh" to you all the time it does get a little tiring and we defend all Canadians.

[max.bravo]

Isn’t $0.2 twenty cents? Anyway- this thread is becoming a living example of that second type of racism- the ignorance of well-meaning white people who don’t understand the issues faced by BIPOC, but are happy to explain ‘racism’ to everyone else. Brilliant.

[AllseeingEye]

Thanks for sharing Sukika.

 

I had very similar experiences moving here from Scotland at age 15. Lots of fun of my accent, asking if I owned a kilt or had eaten Haggis...and what do you mean you dont drink Scotch! 

 

Also been asked due to my also being of Jewish heritage did that make me twice as cheap. 

 

Yup, also got the 'did I know their cousin who lives in Aberdeen?' 'Can I look under your kilt?' 'You're Scots, you must be a good Union man?' 'do you really hate the English?' 

 

One of the things about moving to a new country as a teen was I developed an ability to mimic other accents, not always intentionally but more because most couldnt understand Gutter Glaswegian so that was the only way I could converse but some folks would give me a sideways look of disapproval..

 

Its funny, I never really looked at those experiences as racism, more classism but maybe thats because being a Brit, class, religion and schooling ranked up there with race.

 

I swear it wasn't me - I told no_one.....honest!

[rjag]

So is racism also tribalism?

 

Isn’t $0.2 twenty cents? Anyway- this thread is becoming a living example of that second type of racism- the ignorance of well-meaning white people who don’t understand the issues faced by BIPOC, but are happy to explain ‘racism’ to everyone else. Brilliant.

You think BIPOC hold the exclusive domain to racism? My paternal ancestry is Ashkenazi from Kaunas in Lithuania, maybe look up the definition of a Pogrom. Racial antisemitism is a thing and continues to this day. Pogrom - Wikipedia

 

What of the Yazidi or the Uiygur or the Kurdish peoples?  

 

But you keep on being you...

[Danma]

My half-asian son has heard some slurs on the playground; my daughter passes for white and hasn't experienced anything, other than people wondering why she has weird lunches sometimes with chinese sausage and yu choy sum.

 

I don't find Victoria inherently more racist than Edmonton or Calgary or Vancouver. However, I feel like Victoria is probably the least multicultural place I've ever lived. My high school in Edmonton was probably 25% asian, and I went to an elementary school with a mandarin immersion program. Even Calgary has a thriving Chinatown that extends up Centre Street to 16th avenue, and some of the best Vietnamese food in North America, due to the strength of the Vietnamese community there.

 

So I would say that perhaps Victoria has an issue in that it doesn't reflect the multiculturalism found in a lot of other parts of Canada, and I question why this is.

Edited by Danma, 14 April 2021 - 08:41 PM.

[newbie_01]

Isn’t $0.2 twenty cents? Anyway- this thread is becoming a living example of that second type of racism- the ignorance of well-meaning white people who don’t understand the issues faced by BIPOC, but are happy to explain ‘racism’ to everyone else. Brilliant.

You have a problem with our societal hazing rituals?

Edited by newbie_01, 14 April 2021 - 08:47 PM.

[AllseeingEye]

My half-asian son has heard some slurs on the playground; my daughter passes for white and hasn't experienced anything, other than people wondering why she has weird lunches sometimes with chinese sausage and yu choy sum.

 

I don't find Victoria inherently more racist than Edmonton or Calgary or Vancouver. However, I feel like Victoria is probably the least multicultural place I've ever lived. My high school in Edmonton was probably 25% asian, and I went to an elementary school with a mandarin immersion program. Even Calgary has a thriving Chinatown that extends up Centre Street to 16th avenue, and some of the best Vietnamese food in North America, due to the strength of the Vietnamese community there.

 

So I would say that perhaps Victoria has an issue in that it doesn't reflect the multiculturalism found in a lot of other parts of Canada, and I question why this is.

 

I would concur strongly with this; as I noted in my comment above there were very few non-white faces in my neighborhood or schools in the 60's and 70's.

 

Victoria then (if not even today, still) was the Canadian equivalent to Portland ORE which is frequently cited, sometimes along with Anaheim, as the "whitest" city in America. Aside from the small Chinese and (East) Indian communities which ironically have been part of the fabric of the city for well over a century, Victoria was very pure laine blanc back then for sure.

 

I went to Mt Doug HS in the 70's which at the time had just over 1500 students; our biggest rivals, if you want to use that term, were Oak Bay and Vic High. They were roughly the same size as Mt Doug. Between the three of them - nearly 5000 students - there were exactly 3 black kids; so rare were they that 43 years after I graduated HS I can still easily remember and name all three of them. 

[Danma]

Victoria then (if not even today, still) was the Canadian equivalent to Portland ORE which is frequently cited, sometimes along with Anaheim, as the "whitest" city in America. Aside from the small Chinese and (East) Indian communities which ironically have been part of the fabric of the city for well over a century, Victoria was very pure laine blanc back then for sure.

 

After putting some thought into it, I realize that this is likely a by-product of 20th century Victoria – a very nice place to retire, but totally off the radar insofar as economic opportunity for immigrants. Also yet another reminder that being on an island really does separate our regions despite the lower mainland not actually being very far away.

 

My gut feeling, though, is that in the last few years we're seeing this change. Lots of economic refugees from the lower mainland, better job opportunities on the island and growth makes our area much more attractive for people beyond retirees.

[Mike K.]

First generation adult immigrants (not students who become immigrants) tend to locate where they have support networks available to them, and for the most part will stick to their communities, seek employment where members of their communities already work or run businesses. It can take many years for immigrants to break out of cultural support networks, or move to cities where those networks are not very developed. Some will always remain where they initially landed and will stick within their own community.