63 replies to this topic

[AllseeingEye]

After putting some thought into it, I realize that this is likely a by-product of 20th century Victoria – a very nice place to retire, but totally off the radar insofar as economic opportunity for immigrants. Also yet another reminder that being on an island really does separate our regions despite the lower mainland not actually being very far away.

 

My gut feeling, though, is that in the last few years we're seeing this change. Lots of economic refugees from the lower mainland, better job opportunities on the island and growth makes our area much more attractive for people beyond retirees.

 

 

Totally. People today view Victoria through the lens of 2021 - a (relatively, compared to the past) diverse and somewhat multicultural medium-size city although obviously not at all compared to much larger urban areas like Vancouver or Toronto especially.

 

But roll back 50 years to 1970; I was only ten but remember that Victoria with under 200,000 people very well, making it about the size of present-day Kelowna. The so-called West Shore was the boondocks for us kids in the Cedar Hill neighborhood and like us whiter than white. That was the Colwood/Langford of 1950's-era homes, pick up trucks, junk yard dogs and the infamous "Langford Dinner Jacket". And virtually all White. Stereo-typed for sure, but not altogether inaccurate either. In Cedar Hill there were zero Asian, First Nation or East Indian faces. None. One black family. That's it.

 

My grandparents lived on Darwin Avenue near Saanich Municipal Hall. Same thing: everyone was white. An older German couple lived next door and some Irish-Canadians directly across the street. That was about the full extent of "foreign" residents in that area. Except for tiny pockets of Chinese and East Asian sprinkled here and there the region was blanc as blanc could be.

 

I never encountered First Nation kids ever until we moved to the UVic-Mt Tolmie neighborhood and a brother & sister & family moved down from Haida Gwaii to Victoria and the siblings attended Campus View elementary. That was in 1973. Up until then FN people were completely unknown to us from a personal contact standpoint. 

[Mike K.]

My grandparents lived on Darwin Avenue near Saanich Municipal Hall. Same thing: everyone was white. An older German couple lived next door and some Irish-Canadians directly across the street. That was about the full extent of "foreign" residents in that area. Except for tiny pockets of Chinese and East Asian sprinkled here and there the region was blanc as blanc could be.

 

 

"Foreign" is based on skin colour?

 

What a weird outlook on immigration. White = white? Move along, nothing to see, no culture of any value to be learned of or discussed or spoken about, because that person = white?

 

Victoria was "white" because immigration up until the 1980s was predominantly "white." It was in the late 1980s that immigration from China took off, and began to influence the social and cultural make-up of places like Vancouver. At that time people from the Middle East also began moving to Canada. Up until then Vancouver was also "white," as you call it.

 

I have to say that this 'whitewashing' of culture because someone is "white" is actually pretty offensive, and I don't take offence to many things. It's like to ASE, if you're white, you don't or didn't matter to the cultural and social evolution of this country, but you do if your skin colour or physical features are different than the German and Irish guy.

[AllseeingEye]

"Foreign" is based on skin colour?

 

What a weird outlook on immigration. White = white? Move along, nothing to see, no culture of any value to be learned of or discussed or spoken about, because that person = white?

 

Victoria was "white" because immigration up until the 1980s was predominantly "white." It was in the late 1980s that immigration from China took off, and began to influence the social and cultural make-up of places like Vancouver. At that time people from the Middle East also began moving to Canada. Up until then Vancouver was also "white," as you call it.

 

I have to say that this 'whitewashing' of culture because someone is "white" is actually pretty offensive, and I don't take offence to many things. It's like to ASE, if you're white, you don't or didn't matter to the cultural and social evolution of this country, but you do if your skin colour or physical features are different than the German and Irish guy.

 

As I notice you are often wont to do Mike you completely missed the point. You have a habit you know of extrapolating what you want or perceive in certain subjects and posts and completely putting your own spin on them.

 

I never said or implied that because someone was "white" (German, Irish) that they didn't matter or count or that they didn't represent a culture of value, or that "foreign" is based on skin color. Sheesh! Like...what?! You couldn't have been further off the mark on this one if you tried. For your information we have German blood/relatives in our family so I am more than well acquainted with the cultural distinctiveness and contributions from that society thanks very much.

 

Perhaps instead of rushing to hit the Outrage button you either take the time to 1) fully read and understand what the poster is really saying, or 2) better yet that you ask for clarification rather than jumping wildly to erroneous conclusions in your haste to bash someone. Nuff said.

[Mike K.]

You rather blatantly downplayed anyone “white” as just a variant of whatever “white” you grew up with or as, by putting in quotation marks the word “foreign” to anyone you perceived as “white.”

Trust me ASE, I grew up with this sort of thing. I was “white” only until my last name surfaced, or my mom and I spoke Polish at the store, or our Christmas dinner was so very different to that of others also celebrating Christmas. Suddenly that white kid wasn’t. So pardon me for not gobbling up the gobbledygook about being “white” in Victoria.

And being “white” doesn’t make a person any less “foreign” than they may feel in a country and culture that is foreign in every way when they arrive, starting with the language, the social norms, and opportunities.

[Rob Randall]

I'm surprised an Irishman hasn't chimed in about his misery of everybody asking him about his lucky charms.

[Danma]

Trust me ASE, I grew up with this sort of thing. I was “white” only until my last name surfaced, or my mom and I spoke Polish at the store, or our Christmas dinner was so very different to that of others also celebrating Christmas. Suddenly that white kid wasn’t. So pardon me for not gobbling up the gobbledygook about being “white” in Victoria.

 

The fact that you were getting gears for being Polish of all things really kinds of cements the argument that Vancouver Island was somehow exempt from the levels of immigration experienced in other parts of Canada. 

 

I grew up in Edmonton and there you can't walk in a straight line without bumping into someone with a Polish or Ukrainian last name there, and local towns have giant statues dedicated to perogies, pysankas and kielbassa sausage. 

 

If being Polish was exotic in Victoria, no wonder the idea of having people from even further afield must be a strange and bizarre sensation here. 

[Rob Randall]

The only Pole I recall growing up in Victoria was Wojciehowicz on Barney Miller.

[Mike K.]

The fact that you were getting gears for being Polish of all things really kinds of cements the argument that Vancouver Island was somehow exempt from the levels of immigration experienced in other parts of Canada.

I grew up in Edmonton and there you can't walk in a straight line without bumping into someone with a Polish or Ukrainian last name there, and local towns have giant statues dedicated to perogies, pysankas and kielbassa sausage.

If being Polish was exotic in Victoria, no wonder the idea of having people from even further afield must be a strange and bizarre sensation here.

It wasn’t exotic, but growing up I recognized that too many people in Victoria believed “white” meant only one thing, like as though everyone “white” must exist as part of a mono-culture, and multi-culturalism only existed in the presence of someone visibly different, even if they may have been Canadian-Chinese and had customs that no longer in any way related to their Chinese ancestors who arrived in Canada in the late 1800s (sukika mentions how people speak to her like she doesn’t understand English, because she looks like someone who just might not speak English as a first language). So to that segment of our society the latter will be an example of a multi-cultural Canada, but the newly arrived Pole, again to that group, is just some “white” guy with no unique identity or culture and brings nothing but hot dogs and cheeseburgers to the party.

Victoria is a very multicultural place and has been ever since I can remember but Victorians simply chose either not to see it,
didn’t care to see it, or didn’t recognize there could be something like white guys who shared no common cultural norms or practices beyond utensils and fundamental western customs. So to Gordon Head suburban kids growing up in the 70s the whole school was “white,” because that’s all that mattered in a local culture taught to only recognize physical differences as determinants of a different cultural background.

[Mike K.]

I’ll also tell you guys what day was the worst day at school. The first day, when the teacher butchered any name that had more than two vowels and wasn’t in the English lexicon as a top-50 surname.

It was cringeworthy and pathetic, I thought as a small child, that a grown man or woman, in the position of an educator, didn’t even bother to learn how to pronounce last names that were different, or take the time to sound them out, or even practice them, just to not look like a fool in front of a 10-year-old who expected some semblance of respect from a teacher working in a culturally diverse nation.

[Mike K.]

The only Pole I recall growing up in Victoria was Wojciehowicz on Barney Miller.

Take a gander through your high school yearbooks some time.

[aastra]

 

The fact that you were getting gears for being Polish of all things really kinds of cements the argument that Vancouver Island was somehow exempt from the levels of immigration experienced in other parts of Canada.

 

Maybe I won't mention how we used to give a UK English kid a hard time in elementary school because he talked similar to how the characters talked on goofy foreign TV shows like Benny Hill or On The Buses.

[JohnsonStBridge]

I wouldn't consider Victoria a very multicultural city. That is not to say there is no diversity either of visible or non-visible ethnicities but the stats back it up. 82% of Victoria's population have an ethnic origin of Great Britain or Canada. If that is the bar for a very multicultural city than it is a pretty low bar.

[Mike K.]

20% of Victoria’s population is first generation immigrant, and in Vancouver it’s 40%.

So if we’re considered low, then ultra-diverse, super multi-cultural Vancouver is barely moderate. The way Vancouver is talked about one gets the impression Vancouver is home to 80% multi-ethnic immigrants, but 40%, including those from the UK and the US, is no mecca of diversity if Victoria passes as mono-cultural.

[aastra]

My impression of diversity really changed when I started lumping all Eurasians together as a monoculture.

[Mike K.]

Folkfest’s biggest secret was dressing up sixth generation old stock Victorians to dance and perform culturally significant customs as Italians, Albanians, Norwegians, Poles, Greeks, Germans, Lithuanians, Russians, Spaniards, the Dutch, and some two or three dozen others. In fact, in between breaks the dancers would switch outfits, so only one group performed the entirety of the week-long festival on behalf of ethnic groups from around the world as viewed through the lense of a monocultured society of white men on an Island off the coast of Canada.

[sebberry]

Maybe I won't mention how we used to give a UK English kid a hard time in elementary school because he talked similar to how the characters talked on goofy foreign TV shows like Benny Hill or On The Buses.

 

Thanks, brought back all sorts of memories for me.  At least I was young enough that I lost my accent.  No worries, the mean kids always found something else to pick on.

[Victoria Watcher]

all kids are mean.  

 

most are pretty good by around your 20th high school reunion.  10th is still a bit cliquey.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 April 2021 - 05:03 PM.

[aastra]

 

most are petty good around your 20th high school reunion

 

Yes, because stock car racing is one of those things you get better at with practice.

 

But come on, who in their right mind would go to twenty high school reunions?

[Moderation]

A couple of comments from an English immigrant with jewish heritage who has lived in Montreal, Toronto and Victoria.

 

The french Canadian population in Montreal when I lived there . ((1950s) were treated by many anglo Canadians in a similar way that many southern USA Americans were treating the black community. at the same time. Are these both racism?

 

I used to ask people I had contact with whom I saw as a visible minority where they were from. (this negates that they are from here....I did not understand the message I was sending. Is this racism? I now may say my cultural roots are from England/EuropeanJewish.

What are your cultural roots? If you are going to ask a question like this is there a better way?

 

In Toronto friends had children attending a small elementary school. Parents at that school spoke 28 different first languages to their children at home. Might this be a reasonable measure of multiculturalism in a community?

 

When I came to Victoria from Toronto it struck me how few people in Victoria were visibly different from me. (Skin colour or other obvious physical ways ).  It still is very similar today 20 years later.

[Mike K.]

And yet 1 out of every 5 people you encounter were not born in Canada, and many of them have children born here as first generation Canadians, which means close to 30% of our population is from elsewhere or born to those who are.

There are also communities on the Island where there are many more First Nations residents than immigrants.