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Racism in Victoria


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#41 Moderation

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 06:54 PM

If you want to get the best data possible check out the last census data for Victoria 2016 next one this year. It slices and dices all sort of variables. It may or may not help with understanding the issue of racism in Victoria but it does give some fact based information base to work with in the discussion.

 

Of a population of approx. 85,000, 12370 identify as visible minority Chinese being the largest group at 3200. You can be a fifth  generation of an immigrant Canadian family and still identify as a visible minority.

 

Very few people identified as first nations. Perhaps the census counts people living on first nation lands separately?

 

Immigrant numbers were reported as 16000. However 5400 were immigrants from the US or UK. Some of whom would also identify as a visible minority. 

 

It is never as simple as some people sometimes make it. It also affects everyone on both an individual level as well as a systemic level.



#42 LJ

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 07:24 PM

There is a reason that there are Chinatowns, little Italy areas, most people feel most comfortable around people that share their culture, foods, looks, customs.

 

The fact that most people feel very comfortable visiting these areas, and have no trouble socializing with them is a positive.

 

When I was a kid I didn't know what any of my friends heritage was, what religion they were, or their customs.

 

All I knew was you would get different foods from what we ate at home and most were delicious.

 

None of the people I associate with show any hint of racism, we are around Chinese, Korean, South Asian and black folks all the time.


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#43 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 07:32 PM

when we were kids we used to go down to market square for fat phege's fudge.  

 

pretty sure that was not good for our sugar levels.  not sure if it was ethnic.

 

it was literally a place selling all kinds of fudge by the pound or by the slice.  i'm not even sure if that would be legal today.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 April 2021 - 07:33 PM.


#44 sukika

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 07:58 PM

I used to ask people I had contact with whom I saw as a visible minority where they were from. (this negates that they are from here....I did not understand the message I was sending. Is this racism? I now may say my cultural roots are from England/EuropeanJewish.
What are your cultural roots? If you are going to ask a question like this is there a better way?


I don’t think that’s racism, but something to consider is why are you asking only visible minorities where they are from? Is it relevant to the conversation you are having? If not then why does it matter?

#45 sukika

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 08:21 PM

There is a reason that there are Chinatowns, little Italy areas, most people feel most comfortable around people that share their culture, foods, looks, customs.

Don’t forget about the racial segregation! Most people feel most comfortable around people who aren’t enacting laws to discriminate against them.

Edited by sukika, 15 April 2021 - 08:24 PM.


#46 Moderation

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:02 AM

sukika, I did not only ask the question of people that were visible minorities. I asked it of most of my friends in Canada since most people living here have their origins elsewhere as l do.. I was interested in sharing in their history. It took a comment like your earlier statement from a friend about feeling excluded and the implication that they did not belong. or were different to make me see that what I thought was a question of interest and support was often seen as negative or annoying..........



#47 sukika

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 09:22 AM

Moderation, please don't think I mean you shouldn't be asking that question at all!  I think it's natural for that question to come up during a conversation when you're getting to know someone.  I might feel a little annoyed because it's the 10000th time I've been asked that question, but that doesn't mean you can't ask and it doesn't mean I would be annoyed with you - if that makes sense? 

 

As long as you're not going up to strangers and asking them out of the blue (and believe me it does happen), then you're a-ok in my books. 



#48 sablefish

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:48 PM

I'm surprised an Irishman hasn't chimed in about his misery of everybody asking him about his lucky charms.

 

Asking is fine; however, you will never gain possession of these lucky charms.



#49 LJ

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Posted 17 April 2021 - 06:51 PM

Is it racism or perceived racism...

 

https://www.manhatta...m-united-states


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#50 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 April 2021 - 06:53 PM

Is it racism or perceived racism...

 

https://www.manhatta...m-united-states

 

Yet as political scientist Eric Kaufmann lays out in this paper, the public has a mistaken perception of how much racism exists in America today. This misperception is not only driven by cognitive biases such as the availability heuristic, it is also driven by ideas. Critical race theory and intersectionality—formerly confined to graduate seminars—have seeped into corporate America and Silicon Valley, as well as into many K–12 education systems. With their spread has come an increase in the misperception that bigotry is everywhere, even as the data tell a different story: racism exists, but there has never been less racism than there is now.

 

If America’s racial tensions ever heal, it will be because we were able to align our perceptions with our reality and leave moral panics at the door.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but but but who would gain by misleading us about racism?

 

 

 

 

 

B.C. funds 18 Victoria multiculturalism, anit-racism programs

Programs aim to celebrate BIPOC culture

 

https://www.vicnews....acism-programs/

 

Several programs look to bolster cultural expression through the arts, such as: highlighting Afro-Caribbean music, running Indigenous hand drum workshops and creating accessible performance arts programs where youth can express themselves without judgement.

 

A common theme among many of the programs is creating spaces for racialized people to come together and talk about their life experiences.

 

One program will turn those lived experiences into educational videos that will strive to show audiences what it’s like for those who face racism and marginalization. Another gives BIPOC and LGBTQ2S+ youth spaces to share their stories of discrimination and talk about paths forward. These experience-sharing programs will also try to develop tools and ideas on how to address racism.

 

B.C.’s parliamentary secretary for anti-racism initiatives said racism is pervasive throughout the province and the pandemic has only made the situation worse.

 

“That’s why these grants prioritize projects addressing anti-Indigenous, anti-Asian and anti-Black racism,” said Rachna Singh. “These grants will not only help organizations across the province to address systemic racism, but also provide learning opportunities to foster better understanding and encourage intercultural conversation in B.C. communities.”


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 April 2021 - 06:56 PM.

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#51 FawltyVic

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Posted 17 April 2021 - 09:40 PM

when we were kids we used to go down to market square for fat phege's fudge.  

 

pretty sure that was not good for our sugar levels.  not sure if it was ethnic.

 

it was literally a place selling all kinds of fudge by the pound or by the slice.  i'm not even sure if that would be legal today.

I never purchased from Fat Pheges, I was too busy spending my money at Island Fantasy. :P


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#52 lanforod

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 09:55 PM

20% of Victoria’s population is first generation immigrant, and in Vancouver it’s 40%.

So if we’re considered low, then ultra-diverse, super multi-cultural Vancouver is barely moderate. The way Vancouver is talked about one gets the impression Vancouver is home to 80% multi-ethnic immigrants, but 40%, including those from the UK and the US, is no mecca of diversity if Victoria passes as mono-cultural.

 

Vancouver, compared to world wide cities, is among the highest in the world of foreign born residents. Few major cities are higher, Toronto is one. Foreign born - Wikipedia

That said, having grown up in the Fraser Valley, and lived in Vancouver, there is a lot of racism there. Being a major multicultural city increases racism, in my opinion, especially when major races within a city still tend to group and live in distinct areas, and often live their lives in a bubble of their own culture.

 

Victoria is clearly much lower than that, though increasing slowly, I think (and especially 2nd generation are coming here as they get priced out of Vancouver).



#53 Mike K.

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 04:38 AM

If Vancouver at 40% is one of the world’s most notable cities of immigrants, does that make Victoria at 20% insignificant for immigration?

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#54 spanky123

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 05:54 AM

Vancouver, compared to world wide cities, is among the highest in the world of foreign born residents. Few major cities are higher, Toronto is one. Foreign born - Wikipedia

That said, having grown up in the Fraser Valley, and lived in Vancouver, there is a lot of racism there. Being a major multicultural city increases racism, in my opinion, especially when major races within a city still tend to group and live in distinct areas, and often live their lives in a bubble of their own culture.

 

Victoria is clearly much lower than that, though increasing slowly, I think (and especially 2nd generation are coming here as they get priced out of Vancouver).

 

Agreed and the racism cuts all ways unfortunately. 



#55 lanforod

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 07:14 AM

Agreed and the racism cuts all ways unfortunately. 

 

Yes, but there are cuts and then there are CUTS. Racism in our corner of North America is very different from St. Louis. It affects a different set of cultures in different ways. Not to belittle racism against Poles or Scots, but it's pretty mild compared to racism against First Nations, Chinese or east Indians here.


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#56 spanky123

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 08:21 AM

Yes, but there are cuts and then there are CUTS. Racism in our corner of North America is very different from St. Louis. It affects a different set of cultures in different ways. Not to belittle racism against Poles or Scots, but it's pretty mild compared to racism against First Nations, Chinese or east Indians here.

 

If you travel to Toronto, Vancouver or St. Louis you can experience racism (as a white person) to the same extent that non-whites experience in other communities. Good or bad you may not understand what is being said about you if you only speak English however.



#57 Mike K.

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 08:35 AM

Yes, but there are cuts and then there are CUTS. Racism in our corner of North America is very different from St. Louis. It affects a different set of cultures in different ways. Not to belittle racism against Poles or Scots, but it's pretty mild compared to racism against First Nations, Chinese or east Indians here.


You gotta spend some time in a city like Chicago to see that discrimination knows no boundaries, ethnicities or directions. Even in the biggest melting pots society can be very fragmented, cliquish and intolerant to anyone who is different. Racism is very real, and it’s not linear.

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#58 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 05:57 AM

U.K. set to send asylum-seekers to Rwanda under new plan

 

https://www.ctvnews....-plan-1.5945953

 

 

 

While a major precedent is at stake, the number of people immediately affected by the cases has been steadily whittled down as lawyers challenge the merits of each deportation order. British media reported that the number of migrants scheduled to be on a Tuesday night flight is now seven, down from 31 migrants told last week they would be leaving.

 

https://www.independ...t-b2075420.html

 

Risk of LGBT refugees sent to Rwanda facing persecution over sexual orientation is ‘justified’, says Home Office

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those must be the 7 guys that refused to say they were gay.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 June 2022 - 05:59 AM.


#59 phx

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Posted 14 June 2022 - 06:45 AM

Rwanda had troubles, but is apparently quite nice now. Perhaps it is a better place to live than much of England.



#60 LJ

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 08:02 PM

By Mark Milke

Economist Thomas Sowell, born in the American South and raised in Harlem, and the expert on race, income and culture, once gave an example of why the notion that racism is the dominant or even only factor in explaining economic or other outcomes is flawed.

Historically, he observed, the Italians dominated fishing fleets around the world, unlike the Swiss. Was “systemic” racism against the Swiss the reason? Or is the explanation that Switzerland has no coastline, while Italy is almost all coastline. Italians thus grew up with a natural advantage in fishing and enough of them made it their career to dominate the industry globally.

Sowell, now 93 years old, has 60 years of research and 58 books to his credit, many analyzing the effect of race and racism on incomes. He is someone the Toronto District School Board (TDSB) and its staff should read. That would help them understand the errors in a “teaching resource” the Board recently sent out to its staff.

The 40-page document is entitled “Facilitating Critical Conversations: A Teaching Resource for Challenging Oppression in Toronto District School Board Classrooms.” Written by one teacher (with a specialization in hip-hop), two school principals, and an education consultant — but no economists or statisticians — the “oppression” guide makes bold claims.

 
  • “Schooling in North America is inherently designed for the benefit of the dominant culture (i.e., white, middle-upper class, male, Christian, cisgender, heterosexual, able-bodied, neurotypical, etc.).”
  • “Race matters — it is a visible and dominant identity factor in determining peoples’ social, political, economic, and cultural experiences.”
  • “Education is a colonial structure that centres whiteness and Eurocentricity and therefore it must be actively decolonized.”
  • “White Supremacy is a structural reality that impacts all students and must be discussed and dismantled in classrooms, schools, and communities.”

Late last month the TDSB document was withdrawn — for now — on the order of Ontario’s ministry of education. But the ideas it promotes will show up again. They are pervasive in universities and education bureaucracies.

 

And they are wrong. Assuming differences in education or economic outcomes are due mainly to racism is monocausal and mistaken. It omits the effect of education levels, geography (rural citizens earn less than those in urban locations), culture, family dynamics, the length of time a new cohort has lived in a country and many other “inputs” into incomes and other outcomes.

The Hoover Institution has summarized  Thomas Sowell’s findings on “racism-explains-all-or-much” this way: “(Sowell) argues that discrimination has significantly less of a role to play in inequality than contemporary politicians give it credit for, and that something as incontrovertible as birth order of children has a more significant and statistically higher impact on success than discrimination.” Sowell’s own research has often found that family structure — whether a child has one or two parents, for instance — matters more than race. That only stands to reason: it’s easier to help your child with homework and much else if two parents are around. Senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama pointed to the critical importance of family in a speech on Father’s Day 2008: “Children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison.”

If they prefer their analysis Canadian, TDSB staff should also read what Toronto writer and Financial Post contributor Matthew Lau found when he examined whether Canada is systemically racist in a study last year for the Aristotle Foundation for Public Policy. Lau examined the earnings, education levels, occupations and public-school test scores of various ethnic cohorts. He found that, far from painting Canada as a systemically racist place akin to 19th-century Alabama, the data show that many minorities are thriving.

In terms of education, for instance, the ethnic groups with the greatest proportion of a bachelor’s degree or higher were Canadians of Korean and Chinese ancestry, with 60.5 per cent and 56.4 per cent, respectively, holding them. That compared with just 32.9 per cent for the population as a whole.

Regarding incomes, the highest average weekly earnings of people born in Canada were among those of Japanese ancestry for men ($1,750) and Korean ancestry for women ($1,450). As for success in different occupations, Canadians of south Asian ancestry constitute 7.3 per cent of Canada’s working-age population but account for 12.4 per cent of engineers, 12.5 per cent of doctors and 19.0 per cent of computing professionals.

Lau’s summary finding was that: “Contrary to claims that racial minorities in Canada suffer widespread systemic disadvantages, Statistics Canada data show that Canadian-born individuals of many visible minority groups are succeeding relative to the rest of the population.”

Facts matter — or they should, including to the Toronto District School Board. Any further writing on race they distribute to their staff should be by Thomas Sowell and Matthew Lau. In fact, the Aristotle Foundation would be happy to provide as many copies of Lau’s study on race as they need.

Mark Milke is founder and president of the Aristotle Foundation for Public Policy and editor of its first book, The 1867 Project: Why Canada Should Be Cherished—Not Cancelled.


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