1000 replies to this topic

[David Bratzer]

 

1. Nine year old Vicky Stewart of the Tsimshian nation was killed at the United Church residential school in Edmonton on April 9, 1958 by school matron Ann Knizky, who hit Vicky over the head with a two by four. The RCMP refused to press charges against either Knizky or the United Church, and threatened Vicky`s family with imprisonment if they pursued the matter.

2. Margaret Sepass was raped and then beaten to death by an Anglican priest named John Warner on December 5, 1969, at St. Michael’s Indian school in Alert Bay, British Columbia. Margaret was nine years old. Her burial site is unknown and John Warner was never charged.

3. On January 5, 1938, Albert Gray was beaten to death by Reverend Alfred Caldwell of the United Church of Canada when Albert took a prune from a jar without permission. Albert was eleven years old. His body was buried in secret behind the Ahousat Indian school and Alfred Caldwell was never charged.

4. On December 24, 1946, the same Principal Caldwell kicked 14 year old Maisie Shaw to her death down a flight of stairs at the United Church`s Alberni residential school, as witnessed by Harriett Nahanee. The RCMP covered up the murder.

5. On April 3, 1964, Richard Thomas was sodomized and then strangled to death by Catholic priest Terence McNamara at the Kuper Island Indian school. Richard was buried in secret in an orchard south of the school, and Terence McNamara, who is still alive, was never charged.

6. Elaine Dick, age 6, was kicked to death by a nun in April of 1964 at the Squamish Indian school in Vancouver. The RCMP refused to press charges when requested by the victim`s family.

7. Daniel Kangetok, age 4, was infected with an untreatable virus as part of a Defense Research Board experimental program funded by the Canadian military. He was left to die at the Carcross Anglican residential school in the Yukon, in February of 1971.

8. David Sepass, age 8, was pushed down some stairs by a priest at the Kuper Island catholic school and left to die, early in 1958.

9. A newborn Cree baby was burned alive by a senior priest at the Catholic Muscowegan Indian school near Regina in May of 1944, as witnessed by Irene Favel. The priest was never charged.

10. Susan Ball, age 5, starved to death in a closet at the United Church Edmonton residential school during the winter term of 1959, after being confined there by a church matron for speaking her own language.

11. Pauline Frank, age 8, died from medical experimentation performed by Canadian army researchers at the Nanaimo Indian Hospital in March of 1972. Her body was buried in secret on the grounds of the hospital, which is still restricted military property.

12. Albert Baptiste, age 9, died from electric shocks from a cattle prod wielded by a catholic priest at the Mission residential school over Christmas in 1951.

13. Nancy Joe, age 14, died from involuntary drug testing by military doctors at the Nanaimo Indian hospital in the spring of 1967.

14. Lorraine white, teenager, was gang raped by United Church residential school staff and left to die, Port Alberni, summer of 1971.

15. Eighteen Mohawk children, all under the age of sixteen, were shot to death by Canadian soldiers outside Brantford, Ontario, in the summer of 1943, as witnessed by Rufus McNaughton. The children were buried in secret in a mass grave.

16. Johnny Bingo Dawson, an eyewitness to crimes in Anglican residential schools and a leader of protests against these criminal churches, died of injuries from a police beating after being threatened by them, in Vancouver on December 9, 2009. Official cause of death was alcohol poisoning, despite the absence of alcohol in his blood.

17. Ricky Lavallee, the eyewitness to Bingo’s beating by the Vancouver police, died of a blow to his chest in early January of 2011.

18. William Combes, an eyewitness to the abduction of ten children by Queen Elizabeth from Kamloops Indian school on October 10, 1964, was killed by a lethal injection at St. Paul’s catholic hospital in Vancouver on February 26, 2011.

19. Harriett Nahanee, the first eyewitness to a residential school murder to go public, died after mistreatment in a Vancouver jail, February, 2007.

20. Nora Bernard, the first aboriginal in Canada to sue the Catholic church for residential school crimes, was murdered in December of 2007 on the eve of Canada`s official spin doctoring of the residential school genocide.

… and more than 50,000 others, all of them children.

No-one has ever been charged or tried under Canadian law for any these killings.

 

 

These are serious allegations regarding a difficult subject at time when our emotions are already on edge.  I googled #20, for example, and there is a Wikipedia page indicating that her grandson had been convicted of manslaughter in her death.  I googled #15, and there is an AFP fact check article debunking a similar unsourced claim.  I haven't gone through the entire list (and would prefer not to) but I do feel we should avoid cutting and pasting viral unsourced internet claims on this forum.  The subject matter we are dealing with is serious and sensitive and we should treat it respectfully and carefully and source the material as much as possible. 

[max.bravo]

Questioning the claims of genocide survivors is a big no no. In much of the western world it is already illegal to deny / question details of the holocaust. I wonder if it should be illegal here re: residential schools too. The government already admitted it was a genocide.

[Rob Randall]

The various cases are a mix of known fact, unconfirmed allegations and impossible fantasies. Like I doubt Queen Elizabeth and Philip operated a child kidnapping ring. My heart breaks for the crimes committed against our own peoples yet that claim has to be put in the same category as the nonsensical QAnon fabrications. 

 

There's enough real crimes to focus on without giving oxygen to claims by those who may be well-meaning and sincere yet delusional.

[Victoria Watcher]

GoFundMe:

 

 

 

There are several  locations on Vancouver Island where residential schools were located including the following:

Kuper Island Residential School - Penelakut Island
St. Michaels Residential School -  Alert Bay
Christie (Clayoquot/Kakawis) School  - Tofin/Mears Island
Alberni Residential School - Port Alberni
Ahousaht Residential School -Ahousaht Island

Following our protocols, guided by our Elders and working with our young people, we want to start searching the residential school properties. Using the technology that was used at Tk'emlups residential school (Kamloops) it is critical we begin searching for more of our lost children.

This will take time and resources to make this happen. 

Tom and I are requesting your support  ... Help us raise money to buy this ground penetrating radar unit estimated to be worth $25,000. 

 

https://ca.gofundme....2fb0972bd72179e

[spanky123]

These are serious allegations regarding a difficult subject at time when our emotions are already on edge.  I googled #20, for example, and there is a Wikipedia page indicating that her grandson had been convicted of manslaughter in her death.  I googled #15, and there is an AFP fact check article debunking a similar unsourced claim.  I haven't gone through the entire list (and would prefer not to) but I do feel we should avoid cutting and pasting viral unsourced internet claims on this forum.  The subject matter we are dealing with is serious and sensitive and we should treat it respectfully and carefully and source the material as much as possible. 

 

I googled #18 as I would have thought for sure that a stash of FN slaves being held in the tower of London would have been one of the first things Meghan and Harry would have spilled to Oprah. 

 

The value of using a precise date in an accusation is that it makes it sound legit. The downside of using a precise date is that it is verifiable. The Queen was nowhere near Kamloops or BC on that date and it is easy to prove.

 

The other part about #18 that is easy to prove is that Mr. Coombs died when his life support was turned off in hospital. There was no "lethal injection".

 

I am sure you know this but when people read claims like this and so easily start to debunk them they immediately discount everything stated. If in fact some of them are true it is a shame because now nobody will believe any of them.

Edited by spanky123, 02 June 2021 - 07:02 AM.

[spanky123]

GoFundMe:

 

 

 

There are several  locations on Vancouver Island where residential schools were located including the following:

Kuper Island Residential School - Penelakut Island
St. Michaels Residential School -  Alert Bay
Christie (Clayoquot/Kakawis) School  - Tofin/Mears Island
Alberni Residential School - Port Alberni
Ahousaht Residential School -Ahousaht Island

Following our protocols, guided by our Elders and working with our young people, we want to start searching the residential school properties. Using the technology that was used at Tk'emlups residential school (Kamloops) it is critical we begin searching for more of our lost children.

This will take time and resources to make this happen. 

Tom and I are requesting your support  ... Help us raise money to buy this ground penetrating radar unit estimated to be worth $25,000. 

 

https://ca.gofundme....2fb0972bd72179e

 

Why would they buy a GPR instead of hiring a professional team to do a search for 1/5 of the money? It is not like you are going to use the equipment for more than one search and having someone without experience doing the search doesn't make sense.

 

Also makes it sounds like the group in Kamloops may have done the search themselves.

Edited by spanky123, 02 June 2021 - 07:00 AM.

[spanky123]

I am not trying to compare what happened at residential schools to the same level of abuse that occurred elsewhere but it is interesting to note that times change.

 

My grandfather(s) and their friends have told me many stories about going to public school in the 40's and 50's and routinely being assaulted by teachers and principles. Being strapped, hit with sticks and having a bar of soap thrust into your mouth (aka washing your mouth out with soap) happened all of the time. I even recall much later in the 80's having a kid sitting beside me brained when the teacher threw a heavy chalk board eraser at his head when he was talking during class.

 

From what I know, not a single teacher or principle was ever charged with assault.

[Victoria Watcher]

If you own the equipment and the process and the data you can use the results “better”.

[amor de cosmos]

The Kamloops Indian Residential School was the largest school in the Indian Affairs residential school system that spanned Canada and Vancouver Island.

 

The Secwépemc Museum Archivist is working with the Royal British Columbia Museum, amongst others, to seek out any existing records of these deaths.

 

The Royal BC Museum has offered their support to the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc Nation (Kamloops Indian Band) by searching records held in the BC Archives for historical information related to deaths or burials at the school.

 

“The most significant, relevant records in the BC Archives are those of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate, the religious order that operated the school,” the Royal BC Museum told Victoria Buzz in a statement.

 

“The museum is committed to fully supporting the Nation through this archival research. The entire Royal BC Museum community expresses its deep sorrow at the recent discovery of remains of children on the grounds at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School.”

https://www.victoria...school-remains/

Edited by amor de cosmos, 02 June 2021 - 07:13 AM.

[Jables]

I'm really confused by what's going on here, is there really a 'residential schools weren't all bad" argument going on here? Jesus, what's next, 'not all slave-owners were evil; some didn't even beat their slaves'?  

 

FFS, there are 200+ dead children here.... even if the school gave them appropriate health-care, food, shelter, etc., and even if they would have died at home anyway, the simple fact is, these were 200+ kids that were forcibly torn away from their families in an explicit attempt to eradicate their culture.   

 

100% there are certain members of this forum trying to put the deaths of 215 children "in the context of the times" insinuating that they weren't all that bad. It's a disgusting, reprehensible take that reeks of privilege and I doubt they would have the stones to argue it in the presence of people who were directly affected by the tragedy of the residential school system. Most of all, that opinion is a strawman that's completely beside the point.

 

What's the point? You nailed it in your post. These kids were torn away from their families in an explicit attempt to eradicate their culture. Punishments were harsh and the children were frequently abused and isolated. The schools were internment camps. That's what matters.

 

My apologies for the confrontational tone. It just blows my mind that people would try to whitewash this.

[Mike K.]

It’s a very disturbing aspect to Canadian history. Certainly changes the way we look at what we were taught in social studies, but also what we were taught about cultural or social norms of other places in the world and other time periods.

Regarding white washing, we also have a very simplistic way of teaching First Nations history prior to settlement. We steer clear of topics that are in contrast to the narratives we commonly see relative to the relationship with flora and fauna, and yet those societies faced very complex issues where the survival of nations was at stake, under threat from aggression and territorial disputes, famine, war, expansion. It’s a fascinating history, having learned some of it from indigenous people and even an archeologist who to this day carries out archaeological work all over the west coast of the island and has deep knowledge of the coast’s often turbulent past, but it was never formally taught in schools when I was going through the system. Maybe that’s changed today, but I’m not sure that’s the case. We need a complete re-write of the history of what we call Canada.

[spanky123]

100% there are certain members of this forum trying to put the deaths of 215 children "in the context of the times" insinuating that they weren't all that bad. It's a disgusting, reprehensible take that reeks of privilege and I doubt they would have the stones to argue it in the presence of people who were directly affected by the tragedy of the residential school system. Most of all, that opinion is a strawman that's completely beside the point.

 

I don't think that saying historical events should be viewed within historical context is saying that they were not bad.

[Rob Randall]

^Some comments here went far beyond that by saying conditions were par for the course for all poor people in those times while it's clear that the treatment some children received went far beyond what went on in non-Indigenous schools and orphanages.

[spanky123]

^ I don't think there is any doubt that many FN children were treated poorly and far worse then white people during that period. 

[VIResident]

100% there are certain members of this forum trying to put the deaths of 215 children "in the context of the times" insinuating that they weren't all that bad. It's a disgusting, reprehensible take that reeks of privilege and I doubt they would have the stones to argue it in the presence of people who were directly affected by the tragedy of the residential school system. Most of all, that opinion is a strawman that's completely beside the point.

 

What's the point? You nailed it in your post. These kids were torn away from their families in an explicit attempt to eradicate their culture. Punishments were harsh and the children were frequently abused and isolated. The schools were internment camps. That's what matters.

 

My apologies for the confrontational tone. It just blows my mind that people would try to whitewash this.

 

Well said and thank you.

 

Indigenous Services minister wants Pope to apologize for residential schools; $27-million to go to uncovering unmarked graves across Canada

https://www.theglobe...ze-for-canadas/

[Victoria Watcher]

^Some comments here went far beyond that by saying conditions were par for the course for all poor people in those times while it's clear that the treatment some children received went far beyond what went on in non-Indigenous schools and orphanages.

 

in the 1960's and 1970's were first nations kids still compelled to attend these schools?  were they "ripped from their parents" at this time?   why did society so recently allow that?

[Sparky]

The last one to close was in Saskatchewan in 1996

[max.bravo]

What's the point? You nailed it in your post. These kids were torn away from their families in an explicit attempt to eradicate their culture. Punishments were harsh and the children were frequently abused and isolated. The schools were internment camps. That's what matters.

 

The awfulness of the truth is why exaggerated stories aren't required. In fact they diminish the truth, and will result in Canadians caring even less about survivors' stories.

 

Yes, the entire idea behind residential schools was misguided at best, and by the moral standards of 21st Century Canada it was abhorrent and unethical. And yes, it resulted in many terrible, awful, horrible abuses- stories that the whole world should know about, and that we Canadians should try to heal and reconcile with our Indigenous neighbours, however that needs to happen. 

 

So why do we keep getting inflated/obviously false narratives passed off as truth? Look at the copypasta refuted earlier in this thread. And I think it's happening now with the "confirmed" mass grave in Kamloops story. 

 

CNN reported it as a "mass grave" rather than an unmarked cemetery. Those are two very different things! The mass grave narrative was also passed as truth in the gofundme linked earlier in the thread: 

 

 

GOFUNDME Find Our Lost Children
As most of you know, the news of our recently discovered Indigenous children in a mass grave in Kamloops BC has devastated our First Nations communities to its core. No words can describe this news of our lost children ... 215 some young as 3 years old.

 

 

We know from the Kamloops Indian Band's press release that nothing has been dug up yet. We also know from expert ground-penetrating radar specialists commentary that it can't be a mass grave (because you couldn't count 215 individual bodies by GPR if it was).

 

And regardless of whether it's an unmarked cemetery or a mass grave, you can't determine the age of a child by use of ground penetrating radar. These are extraordinary claims, and I don't doubt there's an unmarked cemetery with 215 (or more) bodies of children from the residential school. But insinuating it's a mass grave, and confirming details that can't be confirmed-- that needs more explanation. 

[sukika]

in the 1960's and 1970's were first nations kids still compelled to attend these schools?  were they "ripped from their parents" at this time?   why did society so recently allow that?

 

As residential schools were phased out, the government continued to remove children from their homes:

 

From https://indigenousfo.../sixties_scoop/:

 

The term Sixties Scoop was coined by Patrick Johnston, author of the 1983 report Native Children and the Child Welfare System. It refers to the mass removal of Aboriginal children from their families into the child welfare system, in most cases without the consent of their families or bands.

 

From Wikipedia 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Sixties_Scoop

 

"The Canadian government started to close the compulsory residential school system in the 1950s and the 1960s, but the government authorities thought that Aboriginal children would benefit from a better education in the public school system.^[19] According to one summary:

 

This transition to provincial services led to a 1951 [Indian Act] amendment that enabled the Province to provide services to Aboriginal people where none existed federally. Child protection was one of these areas. In 1951, twenty-nine Aboriginal children were in provincial care in British Columbia; by 1964, that number was 1,466. Aboriginal children, who had comprised only 1 percent of all children in care, came to make up just over 34 percent.^[19]"

 

From https://sixtiesscoop...tlement.info/  

 

"Between 1951 and 1991, First Nation and Inuit children were taken into care and placed with non-Indigenous parents where they were not raised in accordance with their cultural traditions nor taught their traditional languages. This dark chapter in Canada’s history is commonly referred to as the “Sixties Scoop.” The Class Action argues that those affected by the Sixties Scoop suffered significant harms as a result of these practices–specifically the loss of their cultural identity"

 

Site last updated this month, shows over 16,000 approved claims to date.  

Edited by sukika, 02 June 2021 - 12:11 PM.

[Rob Randall]

I was reading about the use of radar to find graves following the Cyprus civil war in the 1960s-70s. Basically an uprooted bush or shrub is going to present a similar radar profile as a grave. Techniques used include historical aerial photography to rule out false positives (evidence of prior construction or tree removal) and the regular depth and spacing of soil disruption areas that resemble graves, especially if the bodies are in coffins.