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Canada Day in Victoria, B.C.


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#81 Moderation

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 11:31 AM

I agree people within a community should work together. My comments were focused on a statement by the CEO of the harbour authority in a news article on the Cook statue.

 

It cannot be repaired and the harbour authority does not intend to replace it, said CEO Ian Robertson. Instead, they will remove the pedestal and two accompanying plaques while working with the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations to determine what should stand in its place.

 

https://www.timescol...removed-5002945

 

This statement in no way supports the extreme assumption that no other group or citizens of Victoria will be worked with. This non fact is then used to make another extreme assumption that this is a racist statement or act.

 

Two of the 5 guiding principles of the GVHA are:

FN Relationships....working in partnership with the local first nations.

Accountability. act in the public interest and to be held publicly accountable for our activities

 

What the harbour authority CEO said is not an example of racism. My explanation of why the harbour authority could be expected to make reference especially to the local first nations peoples is in no way an attempt to justify racism as was claimed.

 

If people are to work positively together less name calling and frequent claims of racism based on personal opinion and assumptions of what racism is would be a good place to start.

 

If there is an interest in having an open, frank, informative  and informed discussion about racism and racist behaviours I would welcome the opportunity to participate. If there is enough interest it could be a specific thread on this forum.


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#82 Love the rock

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 11:41 AM

The mayor thinks the housing you live in is racist. And when it was pointed out her research was flawed, she doubled down. I don’t think there is much sympathy for a middle ground.

Funny thing is status is a ribbon that runs through my family in a few different directions. Almost all of my family with status owns or shares ownership with the bank on racist housing.  


 


Edited by Love the rock, 29 January 2022 - 11:55 AM.


#83 spanky123

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 12:48 PM

If people are to work positively together less name calling and frequent claims of racism based on personal opinion and assumptions of what racism is would be a good place to start.

 

How are people working positively together when only one group is included in the discussion? 

 

Having said that I think that reality is that the GVHA has no money to spend on a replacement and the CoV would probably debate funding for 6 months so the logical place to try and get money is from the Feds or Province through some reconciliation grant.


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#84 Moderation

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 01:27 PM

How are people working positively together when only one group is included in the discussion? 

 

You seem not to have read or understood what is in the news article and what I have said and explained using information from the GVHA  website about their 5 guiding principles.

 

The GVHA CEO statement in no way explicitly or implicitly suggests that only one group will be included in any future discussions. That seems to be an assumption that you and others have made based on your opinion with no support. From the article  or the GVHA website can you provide any information that would support your assumption that only one group will be included in future discussions and everyone else is to be excluded? 

 

As I said .......the GVHA statement in no way supports the extreme assumption that no other group or citizens of Victoria will be worked with.

 

I have tried to make my point as clearly as possible. You can have your own opinions and assumptions but they are not supported by the facts relating to this GVHA statement.



#85 Nparker

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 01:54 PM

Moderation, on 29 Jan 2022 - 11:31 AM, said:


If people are to work positively together less name calling...would be a good place to start.

Let's start with the word "settler".


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#86 Moderation

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 03:26 PM

Settler... a definition

 

a person who moves with a group of others to live in a new country or area.

 

Have you found this used in either source to explicitly mean something more than this?

Do you have some built in bias or assumption that this word is negative?

 

If you want to bring items up for discussion it might be useful to indicate the location and or context they were used in either source being discussed.



#87 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 03:48 PM

First, it is inaccurate. A settler is a person who settles a new territory. A majority of non-indigenous people are not, by that definition, settlers of Canada. On the contrary, they were born here and they’ve lived here all their lives.

So why does Wabano-Iahtail refer to non-indigenous people as settlers?

This brings me to the second point: it seems to me that the intent is at least in part to demean non-indigenous people within Canada. This raises many troubling questions including the following: if First Nations people can demean non-immigrants as “settlers” then by the same logic can an individual raised within Canada demean a recent immigrant?


https://randalrauser...eople-settlers/

Nonetheless, in both cases the language is demeaning and discriminatory. And to return to that lesson we all learned from our mother’s knee: two wrongs don’t make a right.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 January 2022 - 03:48 PM.

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#88 Nparker

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 03:56 PM

...A majority of non-indigenous people are not, by that definition, settlers of Canada. On the contrary, they were born here and they’ve lived here all their lives...

Both of my parents, one of my grandparents and at least two of my great-grandparents were born in Canada. I am most definitely not a settler.



#89 Moderation

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 04:41 PM

Settler... a definition

 

a person who moves with a group of others to live in a new country or area.

 

Have you found this used in either source to explicitly mean something more than this?

 

 

I

Back to the news article and the GVHA website to answer the question and the use of the

word settler......... where is the comment and how is the use in that context not consistent with the above description?

I



#90 spanky123

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 05:36 PM

^ Words matter.

 

When the GVHA suggests that consultation will be with FN, the RBCM suggests that displays need to come down due colonialism and the Mayor states that ethnic vendors will be permitted during Canada Day it is done so for a reason. 


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#91 Moderation

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 06:03 PM

 You are not making any direct connections with the original article and website again. I will finish this non discussion with my earlier summary statement.

 

What the harbour authority CEO said is not an example of racism. My explanation of why the harbour authority could be expected to make reference especially to the local first nations peoples is in no way an attempt to justify racism as was claimed.

 

With respect to the word settler; As an immigrant to Canada (Not born here) I have no personal problem in being described as a settler. My partner who can trace their ancestors back to about 1665 also has no personal problem with being described as a settler. Obviously some people do.

 

Here is an article and view on the use of the term settler:  Drew Hayden Taylor is an Anishnawbe playwright and humorist.

 

https://www.theglobe...to-pin-down-as/

 

I make this reference for information only. I have expressed my opinion above. 



#92 A Girl is No one

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:11 PM

First, it is inaccurate. A settler is a person who settles a new territory. A majority of non-indigenous people are not, by that definition, settlers of Canada. On the contrary, they were born here and they’ve lived here all their lives.

So why does Wabano-Iahtail refer to non-indigenous people as settlers?

This brings me to the second point: it seems to me that the intent is at least in part to demean non-indigenous people within Canada. This raises many troubling questions including the following: if First Nations people can demean non-immigrants as “settlers” then by the same logic can an individual raised within Canada demean a recent immigrant?


https://randalrauser...eople-settlers/

Nonetheless, in both cases the language is demeaning and discriminatory. And to return to that lesson we all learned from our mother’s knee: two wrongs don’t make a right.

In the BC public service, the term settler is often used along with “uninvited guest”. I find it very hard to have to refer to myself as an uninvited guest when my family has been on this land for close to 500 years.
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#93 Midnightly

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 01:46 AM

In the BC public service, the term settler is often used along with “uninvited guest”. I find it very hard to have to refer to myself as an uninvited guest when my family has been on this land for close to 500 years.

i also agree as a second generation Canadian, born and raised in BC lived here all my life i do not like the word settler, in my view i am not a settler i am a Canadian.. i do not have another country "to go back to"  or ties to another country..  the word settler can be a very loaded word when used and it can be a very negative word, and it is often used in such a way


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#94 Nparker

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 08:16 AM

...the word settler can be a very loaded word when used and it can be a very negative word, and it is often used in such a way

"Settler" is clearly meant to be a word that divides, rather than unites people.


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#95 kitty surprise

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 10:20 AM

Using the words "settler" and "uninvited guest" to wrongfully describe millions of Canadians is harmful and injurious.

Words matter and these words divide, not unite.

The people who use these words already know that.

What could they possibly have to gain by dividing Canadians?
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#96 On the Level

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 10:30 AM

Settler... a definition

 

My family has been in Canada for 7 generations.  Am I a "settler"?  How far back do we go to determine who settled and who didn't?

 

If we are going to go back that far, then we also need to determine where Natives trekked from.  Do we need to include Russia or China in these discussions?  Do those countries own Canada?


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#97 phx

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 02:07 PM

 Do we need to include Russia or China in these discussions?  Do those countries own Canada?

 

Not yet.


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#98 Moderation

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 03:10 PM

My family has been in Canada for 7 generations.  Am I a "settler"?  How far back do we go to determine who settled and who didn't?

 

If we are going to go back that far, then we also need to determine where Natives trekked from.  Do we need to include Russia or China in these discussions?  Do those countries own Canada?

Good questions!  For clarification the definition of settler quoted was related to the discussion of the use of the word in the specific news article or GVVHA website being discussed. I asked for and example of where in the two sources it was not used under that limited meaning. No example was given.

 

What we call ourselves and what others call us is important. All people with Canadian citizenship are Canadians.

Many Canadians also separate or differentiate themselves using Hyphen - Canadian.

Irish - Canadian. The hyphen part often indicates a very proud and strong connection: country, language, religion, race, province.......

 

If asked which of the two parts was most important the majority would say Canadian.

 

Can you be a hyphen Canadian?

Some would say the hyphen part was the most important. What does that mean? Are they still Canadian?



#99 spanky123

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 03:52 PM

What could they possibly have to gain by dividing Canadians?

 

Power. Forces people into tribes and then you get to claim that you are the leader of your tribe.


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#100 On the Level

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 05:32 PM

With respect to the word settler; As an immigrant to Canada (Not born here) I have no personal problem in being described as a settler. My partner who can trace their ancestors back to about 1665 also has no personal problem with being described as a settler. Obviously some people do.

 

Classifying some as "settlers" has consequences.  I didn't choose nor have any control over where I was born nor did I have control over what race I was born as.  "Settler" implies "Squatter".  


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