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PROPOSED
205 Quebec Street
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 205 Quebec Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Urban core
Storeys: 17
Condo units: (studio/bachelor, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR, townhome)
Sales status: in planning
205 Quebec Street is a proposal to build a 17-storey condominium tower, townhomes and retail spaces along the ... (view full profile)
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[James Bay] 205 Quebec Street | Condos; townhomes; retail | 17-storeys


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#21 Mike K.

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 02:11 PM

/\ a developer ploy to garner community/council support. They are not doing anything beyond providing an empty room designated for daycare. Who is hiring and paying for the daycare workers - are there enough qualified workers or even operators ready to take on the space? And to be fair I haven’t read or know the details - will this space be provided free of charge to operators? If so, that is fairly generous, but shouldn’t be required to gain approval - although ‘shortage crisis’ is increasingly being used to gain political approval.

Approval should be based on whether or not that housing (and design) is suitable in that location. It’s not the developer paying for daycare out of their own pocket, it’ll be the new homeowners subsidizing daycare in Victoria. Ironic as condos cost less than homes, and once again it’s those homeowners who can probably least afford it who are subsidizing a service that everyone will have access to, even those living in the same neighbourhood in multi-million dollar homes.

The daycare isn’t a carrot, it’s a needed community space the developer is willing to allocate for that use, and the design is specific to be compatible with that use.

If the community is asking for a service, developers will usually want to accommodate their asks, as it’s best to incorporate unique design aspects from the get go.

But if you think the residents of this building should subsidize a daycare for the broader community than that’s a different discussion, for sure.

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#22 corvus

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 02:15 PM

so what do 250 kids do every day?  are they left at home alone?  

 

i take this kind of thing with a serious grain of salt.

 

 The kids get driven to less convenient, further away care centres, or a parent has to stay home. This isn't a mystery. Keep your salt for an issue that's more believably arguable than "there's too much daycare space in Victoria."


Edited by corvus, 27 October 2021 - 02:16 PM.


#23 zoomer

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 02:51 PM

The daycare isn’t a carrot, it’s a needed community space the developer is willing to allocate for that use, and the design is specific to be compatible with that use.

If the community is asking for a service, developers will usually want to accommodate their asks, as it’s best to incorporate unique design aspects from the get go.

But if you think the residents of this building should subsidize a daycare for the broader community than that’s a different discussion, for sure.


No - home owners at this or any condo should not subsidize daycare. It’s highly likely the only reason the developer is offering this space (still not sure if they’re donating the actual space or reserving it for lease) is to ensure their project gets approved. That’s the public amenity game right now, can’t blame them. But is results in homeowners who are the least likely to be able to afford it subsidizing public services. When a new home is built in Rockland, Fairfield, or Fernwood do we ask the owner to include a garden suite for homeless people? Or contribute to a fund for seniors care homes?

Yet a high density development alone and by itself has incredible community benefits versus a single family home, but that not’s enough, we make them cough up for the privilege of living in concrete boxes which are far more environmentally friendly and a more efficient use of land than any single family home. The building is the amenity to the community.

Now it is possible this developer has a passion for daycare and really wants to make a difference in the community - fine, keep that separate from the development approval process and contribute $200,000 to a specific fund for that.

#24 Mike K.

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 06:26 PM

Donated space would mean the future residents would have to subsidize its construction, each paying more for their unit to buy into the project.

It would also make sense to have the city approve a project with a daycare, and not have to go back to the city for approvals to operate a childcare facility. And the $200,000 you’d like the developer to hand out for a daycare would come from everyone buying into the project, too, about $2,000/per unit. Banks don’t lend construction financing for giveaways, it all has to paid for by the building tenants.

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#25 Mike K.

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 06:32 PM

Here is the developer’s commitment statement regarding the daycare:

There is a minimum waitlist time of 1-2 years for childcare spaces in Victoria and James Bay has the third highest rate of unmet demand for licenced childcare (250 spaces). To address this critical need, we are proposing 49 childcare spaces for infant/toddler and preschool children. Our intent is to design a ground- level indoor and outdoor courtyard space that is programmable, desirable and flexible so that we can attract a significant interest from a number of high quality private or not-for-profit providers.

Mike Geric Construction will provide the right provider with rent on a cost-recovery basis if a provider can demonstrate to the City that the rent savings will be passed onto the end-user families.
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#26 zoomer

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 07:04 PM

Here is the developer’s commitment statement regarding the daycare:

There is a minimum waitlist time of 1-2 years for childcare spaces in Victoria and James Bay has the third highest rate of unmet demand for licenced childcare (250 spaces). To address this critical need, we are proposing 49 childcare spaces for infant/toddler and preschool children. Our intent is to design a ground- level indoor and outdoor courtyard space that is programmable, desirable and flexible so that we can attract a significant interest from a number of high quality private or not-for-profit providers.

Mike Geric Construction will provide the right provider with rent on a cost-recovery basis if a provider can demonstrate to the City that the rent savings will be passed onto the end-user families.

Well this is good news! Usually council tries to squeeze more out of developers (and they may still) but it sounds like Geric is not contributing a penny of their own money, thus won’t be passing it on to home buyers, and they’ll create a dedicated daycare space that’s better than a church basement, greatly increasing the odds of their potentially controversial (in terms of height) proposal being approved. Brilliant and a win all around. As for the $200,00 idea Mike, that wild example wasn’t intended to be financed at all from the current buyers, but you know, sometimes companies make philanthropic donations where they don’t always pass on the buck to the consumer. Don’t they Mike? Don’t tell me it’s not so! ;)

Having a better look at the design I rather like it now, although each side is a little inconsistent, a little too busy, and the parking garage is a giant hole (is this a James Bay thing?!). Other than that and mainly because of what appears to high quality material used together in a stylish retro manner, it does look pretty sharp in a timeless understated way. I’m onboard, let’s go!

Edit: Ok, maybe I’m still unclear by what they mean by rent recovery. Does this mean the cost of rent will also over time go towards paying the construction and financing costs associated with the daycare space? If not, then aren’t the purchasers paying for this out of their pockets?

Edited by zoomer, 27 October 2021 - 07:07 PM.


#27 amor de cosmos

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 07:07 PM

i think i see some lou kahn influence, especially at ground level, like maybe this house

stringio.jpg?1361415749
https://www.archdail...ouse-louis-kahn

combined with these dorms

louis-kahn-dormitories-indian-onstitute-
https://www.dezeen.c...rmitories-iima/


Edited by amor de cosmos, 27 October 2021 - 07:07 PM.

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#28 Mike K.

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 08:51 PM

i think i see some lou kahn influence, especially at ground level, like maybe this house

stringio.jpg?1361415749
https://www.archdail...ouse-louis-kahn

combined with these dorms

louis-kahn-dormitories-indian-onstitute-
https://www.dezeen.c...rmitories-iima/


The half-circle windows are definitely odes to several buildings in Old Town, including the complex across from the D’Ambrosio-designed Pearl on Store Street.

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#29 Casual Kev

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 07:38 PM

Smart approach by the developer to make the ground floor childcare-friendly - there's way more demand than supply for spaces right now so there should be no trouble finding tenants. A good way to get goodwill at council without needing to bribe them. 



#30 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 10:21 AM

MGC submitted a formal application for a development permit & rezoning this week.

 

One of the interesting revelations in the letter to the city (accompanying the rezoning application) is the affordable housing component of the application.  Apparently MGC has acquired 131-139 Menzies and is proposing to build a 40-unit purpose-built rental building on this site (currently occupied by two houses); it's in a prime spot across from Thrifty Foods and ideally located within the James Bay Village.  This would be the affordable housing 'contribution' component of the Quebec Street rezoning.

 

Does anyone have renderings of the proposed rental building ...?


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#31 grantpalin

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 09:59 PM

That's a good place to add density. Probably going to need off-street parking for that, street parking is pretty competitive around there.

 

(139 is hidden by the tree on left, is directly south of the building containing the JB Coffee Shop)

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#32 Hotel Mike

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Posted 23 December 2021 - 11:55 AM

 I walk by there regularly. I have often thought of the possibility of something else going in there to expand the James Bay Village area. I'm glad the City is making this move. There was a perfect opportunity a couple of years ago in Vic West when there was a sketchy duplex for sale right next to the main village area. The City missed an opportunity there.


Don't be so sure.:cool:

#33 AllseeingEye

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Posted 23 December 2021 - 12:23 PM

Posters here seem quite optimistic that this one will be approved; based purely on some earlier FB comments I saw when this proposal was initially announced I'm thinking the usual grumpy, crotchety James Bay NIMBY crowd will give this a pretty rough ride, no?

 

I mean....its COLOSSAL, its MONSTOUS, it'll HIDE THE SUN, and worst of all it will turn James Bay and by extension all of Greater Victoria and the South Island into a......................MINI-VANCOUVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


Edited by AllseeingEye, 23 December 2021 - 12:25 PM.

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