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Missing Middle Housing Initiative (MMHI) in the City of Victoria


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#721 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 06:44 AM

People genuinely believe it’s a “real solution”, rightly or wrongly, and regardless of where the idea comes from.

I suspect Lisa Helps particularly wants to follow because it’s easy to explain how she “implemented” a well-known policy. She will be very long gone before any results are measured. She wants it on her resume this fall.

#722 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 06:55 AM

Science must conform now.

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#723 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 06:57 AM

Sure, no one can know motivation. That’s the art of propaganda. It motivates people. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s being driven by a specific agenda, from specific organizations, that is specifically documented.

I’m willing to bet Stirling doesn’t even mention the Congress Of The New Urbanism once on Twitter. They literally wrote the book on the missing middle.

Edited by dasmo, 10 August 2022 - 08:42 AM.


#724 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 07:01 AM

There's nothing stopping you from emailing him, and putting your thoughts on this to him. He'll read it.

 

I think he knows the origins of this but it's not productive to harp on the UN, when the UN is powerless to do anything. What they need are local agents, and he focuses on them.


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#725 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 07:05 AM

Would you expect one iota of distinct, local and original thinking from this council?

What have they done in the past 8 years to suggest they are capable of such?

Of course all their misguided ideas come from elsewhere. They are not bright enough to think up their own creative solutions.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 August 2022 - 07:05 AM.

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#726 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:22 AM

There's nothing stopping you from emailing him, and putting your thoughts on this to him. He'll read it.

 

I think he knows the origins of this but it's not productive to harp on the UN, when the UN is powerless to do anything. What they need are local agents, and he focuses on them.

It's not about harping on the UN, it's about harping on the local politicians ho are implementing their agendas without considering the local parameters. Call it flavour of the day if it makes it more palatable. 



#727 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:25 AM

but he is just doing his job. Rooting and hating. Get us fighting each other.... As if a discord group Sh*t posting has more impact that the organizations actually influencing our mayor. 

 

"the news” is, in fact, a twisted wing of the entertainment business. In the Internet age, the press have mastered the art of monetizing anger, paranoia, and distrust. Taibbi, who has spent much of his career covering elections in which this kind of manipulative activity is most egregious, provides a rich taxonomic survey of American political journalism’s dirty tricks.

 

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,150&sr=8-1



#728 Nparker

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:28 AM

...the press have mastered the art of monetizing anger, paranoia, and distrust...

And public officials couldn't be happier.


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#729 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:33 AM

This is a local issue in that us locals are being steam rolled... https://www.ueforum.org/lisa-helps

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#730 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:51 AM

but he is just doing his job. Rooting and hating. Get us fighting each other.... As if a discord group Sh*t posting has more impact that the organizations actually influencing our mayor. 

 

They seek to legitimize the influence. These groups are the key, for they create the perception of public buy-in. Without this perception, the agenda fails.

 

I've raised the point already about the dismal response in the by-election for Together Victoria, and the dismal response to Stephen Andrew's pop-up questionnaire, and most recently we had the shameful governance review.

 

The amplification that we see is really just a small group of people, who create the impression that their voices echo the broader community (but the data, like election results and polling, tell us otherwise). Nevertheless, this group legitimizes whatever political agenda needs the legitimacy. Politicians need that legitimacy, however tiny it really is. Stirling is pointing out the facts there.


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#731 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:55 AM

Disclaimer: I myself am a massive proponent of housing. Obviously. But the way the discourse is occurring now, and how politicized it has become, I can no longer stand behind the most vocal groups calling for more housing. Their approach, I feel, is wrong, and ultimately counter productive.


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#732 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:57 AM

They seek to legitimize the influence. These groups are the key, for they create the perception of public buy-in. Without this perception, the agenda fails.

True. But I can't respect what he does when he can't even spend ten minutes researching the actual issue. a simple google search of "missing middle" is all I did you make me suspect and dig a little deeper. I'm not even a journalist! This is his chosen profession but alas, read Hate inc and you will better understand his profession. I am an asshole though so we do have that in common.



#733 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 08:58 AM

Disclaimer: I myself am a massive proponent of housing. Obviously. But the way the discourse is occurring now, and how politicized it has become, I can no longer stand behind the most vocal groups calling for more housing. Their approach, I feel, is wrong, and ultimately counter productive.

Exactly! The issue isn't about housing. 


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#734 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:01 AM

The issue is...

Do we want

local, community driven policy making and democratic decision making

Or do we want

Global agenda driven policy and dictatorial decision making



#735 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:02 AM

I suspect Stirling is well read on the origins of this movement, because the origins of the dozen other movements in Victoria are the same.

 

I just don't think he wants to make the UN influence his major opus, when it's easier for his listeners to understand what local politicians are doing about local issues. Once you get into the unseen hand stuff it becomes a quagmire for talk radio.


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#736 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:06 AM

I suspect Stirling is well read on the origins of this movement, because the origins of the dozen other movements in Victoria are the same.

 

I just don't think he wants to make the UN influence his major opus, when it's easier for his listeners to understand what local politicians are doing about local issues. Once you get into the unseen hand stuff it becomes a quagmire for talk radio.

Yep, as the book Hate inc outlined. It's all gone to "sports broadcasting". It's better to root for your team and stoke up your audience than to talk about real issues. red vs blue.... 



#737 dasmo

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:18 AM

I suspect Stirling is well read on the origins of this movement, because the origins of the dozen other movements in Victoria are the same.

 

I just don't think he wants to make the UN influence his major opus, when it's easier for his listeners to understand what local politicians are doing about local issues. Once you get into the unseen hand stuff it becomes a quagmire for talk radio.

The problems of bringing up "hidden hand" is a good point. Trust me, I know.... This is why I liked how that ex MP brought it. "Flavour of the day" is much more palatable. He also boiled it down to the core issue from a local perspective.

Infill housing is already happening. Look around.

What this policy does is removes public input and the opportunity for the community to affect the outcome of proposed developments. 


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#738 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:27 AM

Yes, that’s precisely it. It devalues public engagement to a sideline, and gives land use powers to unelected staff.

Once those powers are there, it’s just a slight tweak to change 6-units and three-storeys to 75-units and 12-storeys.
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#739 aastra

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 09:58 AM

 

Backing a slogan as opposed to thoughtful solutions... is dangerous as it whips up uncritical fervor. Is this what we have come to? Slogan politics?

 

What nonsense will we get served with next? Maybe vacuous absurdities, like "Stand with Ukraine"?

 

Do you think he's unware of the irony there? You would have to be an absolute fool. Folks, you're being played from all corners. Wake up. Politics isn't real. It never was real.

 

In the year 2022 I'm finding it difficult to engage with people who can't face this fact. It isn't merely a fundamental IQ test. It's a fundamental integrity test.

 

Wake the **** up, for crying out loud.


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#740 Mike K.

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Posted 10 August 2022 - 10:16 AM

#landriseduh

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