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CoV zoning density plan for "missing middle"


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#161 Nparker

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 03:56 PM

...What a ridiculous argument from a simpleton.

But that is exactly how many CoV voters think. How else to explain the current makeup of council?



#162 spanky123

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 04:29 PM

It’s not a done deal.

Yes, they will vote after the public hearing.


I was commenting on Helps’ blog. There may be a vote but councillors will be bullied into supporting it.

#163 lanforod

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 07:42 PM

How long has she been mayor now? She’s had years and years to address red tape problems without needing to resort to blanket rezoning.
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#164 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 03:07 PM

Oh, Stephen Andrew flipped.

#165 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:00 AM

@Homesforliving_ on Twitter:

Well, the #yyj missing middle policy has just been killed. At what most see as a formality vote, @Stephen_Andrew changed his vote to stop the missing middle policy from moving forward. Single family zoning has been upheld. @Chartj88 @deardubow Geoff Young @isitt_ voted against

This is an absolute exclusionary tragedy for residents of Victoria and sets a terrible standard for the surrounding municipalities. It lets renters and those that can't afford a $1.2m+single family home know what these councilors think about you.

It says 'we would rather see a 3million$ new mansion be built than a 4plex or 6plex. Anyone who has run on 'cutting red tape' has been exposed. Anyone fighting for more housing has shown their true preference. What a waste of staff time, what a waste of hope that so many built up

We are calling on @Dave_Eby to take a stand and change zoning across our province. This is absolutely awful. @HonAhmedHussen @jjhorgan


Stephen Andrew response:

You rely on a post that is untrue. We voted to have an another open house & consult community. Staff will present findings & I expect the public hearing. @HomesForLiving_ needs to be truthful in this divisive issue.Suggest you get facts from trusted new source #ANDREW2022


- https://twitter.com/...3U41aEdwV6ve7zA

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#166 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:03 AM

Where is this $3 million mansion stuff coming from, suddenly? This same group said missing middle would deliver sub-$800k townhomes to Fairfield.

Who’s doing their number crunching? The online discussions appear more-so like wishful thinking and assumptions relating to the policy than its real-world outcomes.

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#167 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:14 AM

ATTENTION all councilors reading this:

 

PILOT the program in the community where the association most welcomes it.  2-3 years.  See what plays out.  If it's wonderful, next term you can extend it further.  And when detractors in the extended communities complain, say "look at XYZ community, they have had the program for 2/3 years and [results] has happened".

 

I've already volunteered North Park, Fernwood, Oaklands, North Jubilee, or Gorge/Burnside.  Shop it around, who really wants it?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 May 2022 - 05:21 AM.

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#168 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:45 AM

If supporters of the current plan expect it to pass, they will have to do a better job of addressing concerns about displacement.

There is the belief that this is a policy of forcing sales, the way it has been engineered. It is being sold to supporters on social media as delivering inclusivity and affordable access to housing in the most desirable (therefore most expensive) neighbourboods. That’s the major theme, anyway. But the way existing homeowners see it, is the changes will force up property prices significantly despite City Hall claiming otherwise (how could they not rise?), therefore raising the cost of financially carrying existing residences, and force those on the margins to sell. To buy back in, they’ll have to move to the suburbs, or significantly downsize.

The advocates may be strong in showing up at city hall but the 10,000-odd homeowners who will be deciding who they’ll vote for based solely on this one issue are the force to be reckoned with, politically.

As for David Eby, I suspect he’ll respond the way he responded to Oak Bay tearing down the Lodge (ie, don’t frustrate the silent majority).

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#169 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 05:55 AM

Over in the LOTS FOR SALE thread, I just posted a 1.43 acre set of properties, that are zoned for density.  $10.6 million.

 

Is that what density zoning does to land prices?

 

That's on the busy Island Highway in View Royal.  What does 1.43 acres in Rockland go for, when it's zoned for 6-plexes?

.  


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 May 2022 - 05:58 AM.


#170 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:03 AM

The same density allotment can be purchased in Sooke for $3 million.

In the CoV, it’ll be $15 million, at least.

One-acre was just purchased by Jawl Properties. The holding is assessed at $13.5 million: https://victoria.cit...town-phase-out/

If affordable housing is the primary goal, we are approaching the issue in the absolute worst way imaginable from an affordability point of view, are we not?
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#171 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:06 AM

If affordable housing is the primary goal, we are approaching the issue in the absolute worst way imaginable from an affordability point of view, are we not?

 

Because we have bought into the idea that "Victoria needs 10,000 new housing units..." whereas places like Oak Bay make no such assumption.  Victoria will not grow by 10,000 through birth rate, it'll only grow by in-migration from elsewhere - inside the Island/BC/Canada or from outside the country.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 May 2022 - 06:07 AM.


#172 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:09 AM

ATTENTION all councilors reading this:

 

PILOT the program in the community where the association most welcomes it.  2-3 years.  See what plays out.  If it's wonderful, next term you can extend it further.  And when detractors in the extended communities complain, say "look at XYZ community, they have had the program for 2/3 years and [results] has happened".

 

I've already volunteered North Park, Fernwood, Oaklands, North Jubilee, or Gorge/Burnside.  Shop it around, who really wants it?

 

Failing my plan above, please point to the examples in among those 2,000 pages of documents that shows this similar plan elsewhere in North America where this has had the desired effect.  Manhattan has lots of very high density, is that a low-housing-cost area?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 May 2022 - 06:10 AM.


#173 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:15 AM

Capital Daily:

 

 

 

‘It may never happen’: Vote reversal could turf Victoria’s ‘missing middle’ initiative

 

Council votes to refer initiative back to public engagement

 

 

 

 

This, in all likelihood, is how Victoria’s “missing middle” housing initiative ends: not with a bang, but with a motion for referral.

 

Thursday afternoon, councillors voted 5-4 in favour of referring the proposal—which, if approved, would flip the script on density in Victoria—back to staff for further public engagement, before a report would return to the Committee of the Whole in July.

 

The decision, though not technically a death knell for the initiative, which is intended to create room for more diverse housing options within Victoria amid its ongoing housing crisis, all but guarantees its delay until at least after the fall municipal election—after which time a new council might opt to ditch the proposal entirely, housing advocates worry.

 

 

 

https://www.capitald...ddle-initiative


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 May 2022 - 06:16 AM.


#174 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:19 AM

I suspect it’s also a product of recognizing that big changes are occurring socially and the downtown core on which the CoV relies on heavily for taxation will not survive without a mass infusion of density.

However many thousands of workers not at the office now, are not coming back. But the cost of doing business downtown is rising. The only solution is a mass in-migration of new residents.

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#175 spanky123

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:17 AM

Helps can, and has, taken motions that she has introduced and been defeated and then put them back on the agenda a week or two later after an opponent has been strong armed into supporting it.  This may be back before you know it.



#176 spanky123

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:19 AM

The decision, though not technically a death knell for the initiative, which is intended to create room for more diverse housing options within Victoria amid its ongoing housing crisis, all but guarantees its delay until at least after the fall municipal election—after which time a new council might opt to ditch the proposal entirely, housing advocates worry.

 

Helps has a history (ie Crystal Pool) of quickly cutting loose projects and proposals that she does not see as winners. She had said previously that unless the missing middle project could be rammed through approved by the summer it was dead. If she can't re-introduce the motion quickly then she won't be pursuing it in my opinion.



#177 Nparker

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:20 AM

After the past 8 years, it's pretty clear she is a bully and will do whatever it takes to get her own way.



#178 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:24 AM

Helps can, and has, taken motions that she has introduced and been defeated and then put them back on the agenda a week or two later after an opponent has been strong armed into supporting it.  This may be back before you know it.

 

Yes, especially when we have Dubow and Isitt on the no side now.



#179 Mike K.

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:29 AM

Oh it’ll be back, but not until July.

We just need more time to assess what’s in this report. City Hall is not doing a good enough job communicating what it is council is being asked to vote on.

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#180 spanky123

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:31 AM

Yes, especially when we have Dubow and Isitt on the no side now.

 

I think that Dubrow and Isitt are pretty firm in their opposition. They have it right in this case, missing middle will create housing but it won't be affordable and it won't help low income earners find a place to live. It will create wealth for the people who supported the political campaigns of some of the proponents, but there are lot of unintended consequences that haven't been thought through yet,


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