642 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

....It’s lazy, cliche journalism.

Does the mainstream media offer any other type of journalism these days?

[max.bravo]

"A point"?

Two men dead. Six police injured. Three seriously that it might substantially alter the rest of their lives. 50 plus rounds fired in the middle of a weekday in a busy area. Yes, I think we need place scrutiny on this operation.

They ran toward a situation designed to kill as many police as possible, without knowing beforehand this was the idea. Zero police dead - a win. Zero civilians injured - a miracle.

By every metric this is a huge, heroic win by police.

[Victoria Watcher]

They ran toward a situation designed to kill as many police as possible, without knowing beforehand this was the idea. 

 

We might never know the motive of the robbers here.  They are dead.   (tell no tales, etc.)

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 July 2022 - 08:19 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

They ran toward a situation designed to kill as many police as possible, without knowing beforehand this was the idea. Zero police dead - a win. Zero civilians injured - a miracle.

By every metric this is a huge, heroic win by police.

 

If police had simply not shown up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 July 2022 - 08:24 AM.

[max.bravo]

If police had simply not show up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.

Suggesting police shouldn’t have responded to an armed robbery…
This is among the silliest things you’ve ever said.

Edited by max.bravo, 01 July 2022 - 08:22 AM.

[Nparker]

If police had simply not show up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.  

It would be easier to accept this scenario if the suspects had not been heavily armed and their getaway vehicle wasn't rigged with IEDs.

[Victoria Watcher]

Suggesting police shouldn’t have responded to an armed robbery…
This is among the silliest things you’ve ever said.

 

Obviously I did not suggest that.  

 

But I did compare that with the way the police did show up - and that result.

 

So at one (unrealistic) end you have zero hurt or killed.  At the other extreme (the way it did unfold) we have 2 dead, plus 6 injured.  I bet if they were to do it over again, they'd aim for something much closer to the zero side.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 July 2022 - 08:28 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

It would be easier to accept this scenario if the suspects had not been heavily armed and their getaway vehicle wasn't rigged with IEDs.

 

Ya, we will see I guess.

 

Seems to me this is the same town that had their hands on the most evil Canada Day bombers, set to blow up the Legislature.  How did that case turn out?

[Daveyboy]

If police had simply not shown up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.  

Fixed your typo for you - If robbers had simply not shown up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.

[Victoria Watcher]

Fixed your typo for you - If robbers had simply not shown up at all, likely nobody would be dead or injured.

 

Can't argue with that.

[todd]

Don’t make me read the riot act about assumptions 

[Benezet]

…
How did that case turn out?

Oh, you know…

https://www.vicnews....-bomb-plot/amp/

[pontcanna]

‘So many questions we want to know’: Expert offers possible reasons why details are being withheld in Saanich bank robbery

July 1, 2022

 

Three days after the bank robbery in Saanich, there are still few concrete details released about what happened, and one expert says this is likely to protect the integrity of the investigation.

Benjamin Morgan, principal and managing director of the Centre for Crisis & Risk Communications says while it is natural to want to know more, there are likely reasons police aren’t releasing more.

“There are so many questions we want to know. Why and who was in our community? What are they doing here? Who are they?” Morgan said in an interview with CHEK News. “I don’t suspect that that’s being withheld just to keep everybody wondering, I’m certain that there would be some rationale behind withholding that information at this time.”

In the U.S., information around active shootings or other high-risk situations is often released shortly after the incident, and Morgan says there are some reasons why investigators in the Saanich robbery can’t do the same.

“Certainly the laws, privacy laws, etc. are a little different in the U.S. than they are here in Canada,” Morgan offered as one potential explanation. “If the deceased family members have not been identified yet that might be one of the considerations. [The information] may be a really important part of the investigation.”

Another piece is in B.C., once the Independent Investigations Office gets involved, Morgan says police departments are limited in what information they are allowed to share.

“So I imagine in many circumstances that the Saanich Police Department will be restricted with what they are able to share.”

“A very important piece of communications, especially in circumstances like this is trust,” Morgan said. “And if organizations like the Saanich Police Department rush to provide answers without really understanding all of the different layers and all of the different subtleties and they come up with some wrong information that can degrade the trust.”

When crisis communicators are choosing what information to release and not to release, Morgan says there are a few considerations.

First is all information that will affect the public’s safety should be released. He says while the situation is ongoing, the information will be focused on things like telling people in a certain area to shelter in place, or to avoid an area.

The second consideration is determining how much to release in order to get information from the public or potential witnesses, while holding back enough to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

“What I mean by that is if we share the weapons that were used, were ‘x,’ if the police agency doing the investigation is interviewing a potential suspect or somebody that they believe would have information, if all of the details were made public, then if I were if I were the suspect being interviewed, I could easily say ‘oh yes, these are the weapons we used,'” Morgan said.

Rob Gordon, professor of criminology at Simon Fraser University says investigators may also still be looking in to motive.

“It was a very unusual bank robbery for a suburban bank,” Gordon said. “It’s gotta be a very slick operation which is why not many of them occur. I mean, bank robberies in that sort of Butch-Cassidy tradition are a thing of the past.”

 

More: https://www.cheknews...obbery-1056572/

 

[Victoria Watcher]

“Certainly the laws, privacy laws, etc. are a little different in the U.S. than they are here in Canada,” Morgan offered as one potential explanation. “If the deceased family members have not been identified yet that might be one of the considerations. [The information] may be a really important part of the investigation.”

Another piece is in B.C., once the Independent Investigations Office gets involved, Morgan says police departments are limited in what information they are allowed to share.

“So I imagine in many circumstances that the Saanich Police Department will be restricted with what they are able to share.”

“A very important piece of communications, especially in circumstances like this is trust,” Morgan said. “And if organizations like the Saanich Police Department rush to provide answers without really understanding all of the different layers and all of the different subtleties and they come up with some wrong information that can degrade the trust.”

 

A couple things.

 

The suspects are dead.   Let's have their names now, before we get it from family or friends or whoever.

 

The suspects are dead.  Nobody has to worry too much about "the integrity of the investigation" in terms of it affecting the ability to prosecute these two suspects.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 July 2022 - 03:49 PM.

[max.bravo]

Sounds similar to the vague reasons they give for why nobody can set foot around Sooke Lake, our water reservoir. Meanwhile in the states you can go waterskiing on their reservoirs.
We have less freedom here, basically. Government maintains control. For your own good, surely.

Edited by max.bravo, 01 July 2022 - 06:37 PM.

[pontcanna]

Saanich bank-robbery shootout: Witness describes diving for cover; officers 'extremely professional'

“All hell broke loose … I just took the young lady and said: ‘Get down. Get down’

 

Times Colonist - July 2, 2022 - Carla Wilson

Saanich resident Paul Arnold was in Shelbourne Plaza to mail a letter at 11 a.m. on Tuesday, about 100 to 150 feet from the Bank of Montreal branch across the street, when he noticed police arriving and grouping together on Shelbourne Street.
 

Paul Arnold

“Police cruisers were kind of coming from every direction and cordoning off the road.”

He was standing with a young woman, who he does not know, watching heavily armed police moving toward the bank.

When police got close, “All hell broke loose … the shooting started. I just took the young lady and said: ‘Get down. Get down. We’re vulnerable here.’

“So we got down on the ground and we crawled ­underneath this bush and we stayed there.”

A break in the shooting sent them rushing to a spot behind a large black truck, where they remained until it was quiet.

The woman he helped was “crying her eyes out,” he said.

Arnold said he has been ­struggling to figure out what could have motivated the bank robbers.

Police at the scene were “extremely professional,” he said. “They were obviously well-trained.”

Curtis Poier, assistant ­manager at Wild Birds Unlimited on Shelbourne Street, was in the store with an employee and three customers when he saw five or six police officers heading along the street.

When they heard gunfire, they all hit the ground. “It was pretty crazy.”

 

More: https://www.timescol...ssional-5540857

 

 

[pontcanna]

Reminder: Love the people over the fence

 

There has been an overwhelming but increasingly rare show of public support for our police officers. I’m sure this shift in public sentiment is welcome (if temporary) relief for our weary but steadfast officers.

 

This week I have witnessed innumerable small acts of kindness. Friends have reached out, our dog has been walked, a pack of cold beer dropped on our doorstep.

 

Our wonderful 80-year-old neighbours even baked a cake and delivered it over the fence.

 

Send love “over the fence.” Make eye contact with a stranger and smile or say hello. Let the car in and give them a wave.

 

The helpers are hurting. And they’re everywhere. They live on your street. They shop in your stores. They volunteer. They parent. They are us.

 

But if we can take one sliver of good from this trauma, let it be a reminder to love people from over the fence.

 

Some say evil lives among us, and that may be true as witnessed by the incident this week. But guess what? Good does too. Let’s make sure it wins.

 

Name withheld;
the writer is the wife of a Victoria police officer who is a member of the Greater Victoria Emergency Response Team.

 

 

They run to danger to protect us

 

We still know very little about the major incident in Saanich, other than it could have been a much different outcome without the professional and heroic actions of the police.

 

The first lesson we learned: This is the world we live in, and police services are as important (or even more) than they were before. We have seen it in rural sleepy communities in Nova Scotia, in downtown Toronto and in our own backyard. There are bad people out there.

 

And that’s why the progressive tendency to “solve” social problems by defunding police is totally and absolutely wrong. The concept is so misguided that anyone even mention it after the events of June 28 should be ashamed.

 

Which brings me to the second lesson we already learned: no matter how much we vilify them, no matter how much we attack them, no matter how much we think they shouldn’t be here, when the bad guys appear and start shooting, our brave men and women from police will run towards the bullets to protect us.

 

Daniel Sanchez
Victoria

 

More: https://www.timescol...tect-us-5540858

 

[Victoria Watcher]

^

 

Which brings me to the second lesson we already learned: no matter how much we vilify them, no matter how much we attack them, no matter how much we think they shouldn’t be here, when the bad guys appear and start shooting, our brave men and women from police will run towards the bullets to protect us.

 

 

The bad guys did not start shooting until confronted by a van full of police.  Before that arrived there were no shots.

 

I'm not sure how else this could/would/should have turned out, but to those that are 100% in support of the police, and are happy with the result (two dead, six injured by gunshot wounds), I say, "are you sure you don't want to take a little bit more of a critical look at the events here?"

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 July 2022 - 07:54 AM.

[max.bravo]

Can we please immediately and officially remove the ACAB message from that mural? Stephen Andrew are you listening?

[Nparker]

...The bad guys did not start shooting until confronted by a van full of police.  Before that arrived there were no shots...

The bad guys came heavily armed and the police only arrived to do their job.