15 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

I'm not sure whether this is the right category for this topic, or whether it should go under "Arts, Entertainment, Culture," in a new topic called "Failed Festivals,", but there's an interesting article in today's T-C on the possibility of cancelling the August meet-up, possibly the largest in North America, of Jaguar fans: [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=596151a8-af43-4efd-8e0e-76bcc5f122c6:6e0fc]Capital Jaguar club aghast as council says off the grass[/url:6e0fc], by Carolyn Heiman.

What I find especially interesting is that Vancouver's Van Dusen Gardens manages to use a manicured bit of lawn for events like this, and somehow also manages not to get into a tizzy about it. Also of interest is how "common sense" is invoked (see end of article), but I wonder how much common sense is at work here, and how much is a set-in-its-ways way of doing things that has less to do with common sense and everything to do with upholding a status quo that no one seems to understand anyway.

Anyway, I'd like to see some discussion around parks and park use(s). If anyone went to the recent Parks workshop at City Hall (on March 17, all morning), pipe up. I missed that, but I heard that the UBC prof who spoke talked about "joy" in parks, and somehow I get the impression that Victoria is all about KillJoy.

Capital Jaguar club aghast as council says off the grass
Association informed it can't use field for North American vintage car show

Carolyn Heiman
Times Colonist

Saturday, March 24, 2007

Victoria wants the rubber to keep hitting the road when it comes to car shows.

Organizers of a fledgling but popular Jaguar show are being told they can't use grassy park areas for their August long-weekend show they say is the largest gathering of Jaguar automobiles anywhere in North America.

Howard Liptrot, president of the Jaguar Club of Victoria, said if the club can't use the playing field at Fisherman's Wharf to show off vintage cars it may cancel the event that displayed 129 sleek cats on wheels last year.

The first two years, the Jaguar group staged the event at Saanich's Gyro Park, but planned construction in the park will make the area too dusty to this year's show. Besides, said Liptrot, participants would like to be closer to downtown where they are staying and have their reception.

Liptrot said the show has an economic impact for the city, as it brings in well-heeled tourists: "They are not people who sleep in someone's basement floor and eat at McDonald's. They can afford to spoil themselves."

He said Tourism Victoria estimated the event injects $107,000 into the Victoria economy.

Parks manager Mike Leskiw said the city has a bylaw that forbids vehicles from parking or driving on grassy areas in parks.

The group, which has rejected an offer to use the paved areas at Clover Point and Ogden Point, will have to sway politicians to get an exemption from the rules, Leskiw said.

Liptrot believes cars don't damage turf hardened by arid summer conditions any more than does a woman walking over the area in high heels. He adds that car shows are often staged on manicured lawns including Van Dusen Gardens in Vancouver.

But Leskiw said it costs Victoria several thousand dollars to maintain the field, and cars driving over hardened turf "can destroy grass crowns that are dormant."

This is the second event that is having the brakes put on it over the no-cars-on grass rule.

Last year, council made a last-minute exemption to allow the Father's Day British Car Picnic to continue meeting in Beacon Hill Park. As a saw-off, and recognition of the 23-year-old tradition the event had in the park, council moved the picnic to an area of turf not used as a playing field.

Jim Walters, show organizer, said that event wouldn't be the same staged on asphalt.

"It's a picnic," said Walters.

"It evokes the era of England when you brought your horse and carriage, drove up on the grass, spread a blanket out and had a picnic."

The group was asked once to move to the gravel all-weather playing field "but there was a hue and cry" over that change.

Walters, who owns Bristol Motors which underwrites the cost of the Father's Day show, said he doesn't put up any sponsor banners for the show, something would run the event afoul of no-commercial activity rules for Beacon Hill Park.

Liptrot said he knows the politics of Beacon Hill Park. "We know it is out of reach," he said, alluding to rules dating back to the 19th century that forbid profit-making activities in the park, something which has affected a range of events there.

Walters said Victoria is a tough city to stage car shows compared to other cities, which roll out the welcome mat.

Coun. Pam Madoff, who has parks under her portfolio, said as the city changes there is more and more pressure on parks and "conflicts developing over uses that didn't seem to be conflicting.

"Common sense would suggest that putting vehicles on turf isn't a great idea," she said.
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007

[Holden West]

Interesting that they don't have a quote from a professional landscaper on whether or not some cars driving onto the grass once a year has a detrimental effect on the grass or not.

As much as I respect the "common sense" of politicians, I'd prefer to hear from a true expert before voicing an opinion.

I think it was last summer they had a classic car expo that had dozens of cars that stretched from the Visitor's Info Centre all the way around to the Wax Museum. A great pedestrian event but a different type of experience than one that takes place on a grassy field. Having it at Ogden Point would seem to be the worst of both worlds--not nice for a picnic--far from Downtown crowds.

We need a guy like [url=http://www.lawnandlandscape.com/news/news.asp?ID=5192:f86d6]this[/url:f86d6] professor of Turf Science at Cornell U. that testifies in court on potential grass damage issues. I'm not kidding!

[zoomer]

"It evokes the era of England when you brought your horse and carriage, drove up on the grass, spread a blanket out and had a picnic."

Hmm...so they need to be on grass to evoke memories of jolly old upper crust England?! Last time I checked horse and carriages weren't jaguars either!

But sure, I can see it would be nicer for all to be on the cool grass intead of hot ashpalt in August. That field looks pretty awful most of the year as well.

[Icebergalley]

And, the "solution" to balance safety and traffic movement on Government St. is to reduce the # of people in the "marimba" bands that are so popular with visitors to Downtown..

Markets, buskers special events, young people banned from roller blading on the tennis court in their neighbourhood..

What's happening... ? a concerted effort to make a "de-vibed" Victoria..

Who's voice is being heard?

[Ms. B. Havin]

I didn't learn about the marimba band issue (which you mention, IBA) until today when I looked through last Friday's Victoria News. [url=http://vicnews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=36&cat=23&id=858822&more=:6ef29]Marimba Bands Muted[/url:6ef29], by Brennan Clarke (Mar.23) -- gotta give Clarke credit on this one, he has some choice quotes that really hammer things home (see bolded bits):

Marimba bands muted

By Brennan Clarke
News staff
mailto:bclarke@vicnews.com
Mar 23 2007

When it comes to summertime entertainment along Government Street, nothing draws a crowd like a marimba band.

That’s great for the performers, but not so great for city officials who worry about traffic flow problems and safety issues when spectators spill over the curb and into the street.

In an effort to reduce sidewalk congestion, the city has imposed a five-person limit on all Government Street busking outfits, a move that will either force marimba groups to stay home or perform in reduced numbers.

“We’re a little disappointed. It will definitely change what we do,” said Melissa Chigamba of Jambanja Marimba, a six-piece Victoria group that will be releasing its second album March 31.

“Usually there’s six of us, but I guess we’ll do it sometimes with four or five. We were down there eight times a week last summer.”

Chikoro Marimba, a 10-piece group based in the West Shore communities, played Government Street once a week on average last summer to an “amazing response from the tourists,” said group spokesperson Roberta MacDonald.

Group members learned of the new rules when they went to pick up their annual busking permit recently, she said.

“We were kind of surprised and disappointed that we won’t be able to perform as a full group,” MacDonald said. “I think it will affect the energy.”

In addition to safety and traffic flow concerns, City of Victoria downtown co-ordinator said other buskers have complained the marimba groups are too loud.

“It’s also about the acoustics and a sense of fair play,” Hill said.

The marimba band rules are coming into play as the city wrestles with the loss of three key summer time music festivals – FolkFest, the Victoria Latin-Caribbean Festival and Open Air in the Square.

The organizers of those events cited a lack of a decent-sized outdoor venues as a factor in the cancellations.

MacDonald said Chikoro Marimba would be delighted if the city came up with another downtown venue where “we could go and interact with the tourists.”

Rick Palmer of the Duncan-based group Marimba Magic said the rules for busking in Victoria are becoming “more and more restrictive.

“Our culture is so anal, you can’t have any fun, you can’t have any excitement,” said Palmer, whose nine-piece group has in recent years stopped playing downtown Victoria.

“This just puts a little bit more sleeping serum into the half-dead corpse.”

The five-person limit on buskers does not affect the Inner Harbour, where performers are regulated by the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority.

Then of course there's today's letter to the editor in the T-C, by a senior who laments the loss of the old Victoria, which was lovely since it "was a graveyard" after 9pm because they rolled up the sidewalks, tea at the Empress cost $2.50 and Butchart Gardens was free, and you could cross the street anytime anywhere without fear of being run over. The reason tea doesn't cost $2.50 anymore is because of evil greedy developers who have turned our streets into concrete canyons -- the "logic" is sweet, eh? -- and Crystal Gardens will never fly as a venue unless we build lots of parking right next door...

:smt017 Um, but wait a minute? She just said that the old Victoria was great 'cause there was no traffic, but she wants more parking spaces downtown? Argh!!!

So, yeah, it's like some kind of collective schizophrenia, innit? And shut that g-d marimba band up, fer cryin' out loud, I can't drink my tea in peace & quiet! :roll:

[m0nkyman]

Don't make me read the letters page again. Banging my head against a wall is painful....

[Holden West]

Tea at the Empress was only $2.50? Too bad the average wage was six bucks a day. :roll:

The problem isn't really the marimba bands--it's the throngs of pedestrians in the summer overflowing the Gov't St. sidewalks.

[G-Man]

That was the best letter to the editor of ALL TIME. I was laughing so hard I almost spit up my coffee!

[Baro]

Uhg, I read that letter too. I thought it was going to be about street cars or something. When she started saying how downtown was a cemetary with lights and no vibrancy or anything ever happening I thought obviously by her choice of similies that she was then going to go on about how now town is becoming more vibrant and less-cemetary like but she misses the street cars and some of the good things back then.

Nope, just a crazy ignorant rant about how the city is a concrete jungle just like any other modern city and its been destroyed by greedy developers.

"A nice city, shame that it has population a buildings and economic and leasure activities though, really ruins the place"

[VicHockeyFan]

I think it was last summer they had a classic car expo that had dozens of cars that stretched from the Visitor's Info Centre all the way around to the Wax Museum. A great pedestrian event but a different type of experience than one that takes place on a grassy field.

Ya that show was great!

[Icebergalley]

We're all rambling about here..

Even though I'm a carfree type, I enjoyed the classics on the Causeway.. as did many people...

I'm still looking for a car that I remember as one of my youngest memories.

a dodge or plymouth coupe with a rumble seat... ???



The quest continues..

[aastra]

...and you could cross the street anytime anywhere without fear of being run over.

Give me a break. Heck, the archival pics suggest some downtown streets were busier in the good old days than they are today!

[viewership]

^^And look at that concrete behemoth in the first photo, it practically blots out the sun! That's not what we want in our quaint little town.

[Holden West]

Fisherman's wharf park gets makeover

"I come out of the jock world and I understand the concern about losing a field," said Coun. Chris Coleman, chairman of the environment and infrastructure committee.

"But the reality of that park is that it was never level and was a second-class playing field at best. The proof of that was it was often relegated as a secondary practice pitch. Or for many years -- not so much in the last 10 -- it was allocated to lower-level girls' sports."

The 1.56-hectare Fisherman's Wharf Park, bounded to the south and east by Erie and St. Lawrence streets and by Fisherman's Wharf to the north, is used as a field for baseball, rugby practice and soccer. There is also a small picnic area.

Projected to cost between $750,000 and $1.2 million, the park makeover is contemplated in two phases. The remake's most significant feature would be the exposure of a stream five to six metres below the surface. That work, projected for phase two, could cost anywhere between $300,000 and $1.2 million, depending on the extent of soil contamination.

[aastra]

I've pondered that particular field many a time. I've often wondered if it would be more successful as a public space if a strip of it were sold off for townhouses or small commercial units or some such thing.

I'm sure plenty of people would freak at the very idea. Barren fields are supposed to be our refuge from intense city life and all of that. The problem is, barren fields also tend to be completely empty most of the time, because (I think) people aren't seeking refuge so much as they're seeking interesting spaces.

[jklymak]

It would be cool if they could move the parking lot and make the park contiguous with the rest of Fisherman's Wharf. Selling off some of it to help defray that might work particularly if the development/parking was on the South end.

However, I'm not sure if that road is needed to service the dock? Maybe wouldn't work...