45 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Does anyone realize just how dark the City of Victoria has become by night? The street lights are so dim now, that you literally encounter pockets of darkness as you walk down the street. I didn't realize it was as dark as it was, until last night.

 

I know there have been changes to the LEDs on light standards, but was the intent to darken the city so much?

[Victoria Watcher]

Does 10 Mile Point (the Tudor/Seaview part) have any streetlights yet? They didn’t used to. Quite pleasant.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 August 2022 - 07:15 AM.

[mbjj]

When they changed the street lighting it was super bright. Then I think people complained so the city put some shields on some of the street lights. Now it's darker than it was before they changed them! 

[Mike K.]

It’s so dark, that you can’t see people darkly dressed in between the light standards. Mum’s block is so dark now that looking out the window it’s pitch black, and the standards illuminate the standard itself, barely the sidewalk. It’s creepy.

[gstc84]

My question is what's with the weird purple streetlights (about every 3-4 streetlights) along the Island Highway / Craigflower Rd through View Royal and Esquimalt? Noticed them for the first time last month and they were pretty distracting.

[aastra]

Search on the purple lights and you'll find a thousand "local" stories about it from all over the world. Template-style verbiage should always jump out to a media literate person, of course.

Edited by aastra, 24 August 2022 - 11:20 AM.

[aastra]

Darn it all, the editor messed up a bunch of links in my previous post. Anyway, people can search on their own. I was able to salvage the following:

 

Anyone who dares to do some rough calculations re: the cost of manufacturing, the cost of shipping, the cost of installing, the cost of replacing, and the amount of waste involved in this environmentally-responsible project would surely be a conspiracy theorist and probably also a terrorist. Just take a moment to consider the immensity of this exact same scenario playing out just about everywhere for an extended period. Just imagine the manufacturers happily eating the replacement bill. Just imagine the issue soon being resolved even though it's already been dragging on for a year and a half, at least.

[aastra]

 

Does anyone realize just how dark the City of Victoria has become by night?

 

Normally I would vehemently disagree with anything you say, but I was actually thinking the same thing during some night walks this summer.

[Mike K.]

It's like a power outage has affected the area and all you see are emergency lights, it can be that dimly lit.

 

You'd think, in an era when we're so cognizant of being self-aware, safe spaces, safe streets, safe public areas and safety of all citizens, that brightly lit roads would be a #1 priority?

[Nparker]

I imagine the bike lanes are well lighted.

[todd]

It’s a climate emergency, shouldn’t we turn them off?

[dasmo]

Search on the purple lights and you'll find a thousand "local" stories about it from all over the world. Template-style verbiage should always jump out to a media literate person, of course.

To answer the question the purple lights are failed LED modules. It’s like the $30 light bulb that’s supposed to last 100 years and it’s out a few years after you bought it. And it’s now e-waste and requires special disposal.

Some fun theories on the purple lights though. I don’t recommend searching on *****ute…

[dasmo]

👆that’s Bit Chute one word…

Edited by dasmo, 24 August 2022 - 10:05 PM.

[Nparker]

The CoV should buy its light bulbs 💡 at the dollar store like I do. They last every bit as long as those overpriced compact fluorescent ones.

[FogPub]

Is it possible they were dimmed or shielded at the request of local astronomers and-or the DAO?  Light pollution is the bane of astronomy.

[Spy Black]

We're now years into replacing sodium and mercury vapour style streetlights with LED's, and the change is quite profound in terms of both the colour temperature of the light, as well as the intensity of the light. 

 

Note too that, in an effort to combat light pollution, manufacturers have responded to municipalities and cities requirements by making all LED streetlights full-cutoff, which is made apparent by the completely flat lens on the streetlights, designed to project light straight downward only.

 

There is no "wasted" light being projected out to the sides, as there was on the old sodium and mercury vapour fixtures, which had a solid couple of inches of lens projecting light straight out sideways. When you're a few dozen feet up in the air, projecting light out to the sides is a complete waste of energy, and is the dominant design defect that causes light pollution.

 

Light pollution is (IMO) a bane on humanity. For reasons that stretch from the very practical (energy conservation and animal behaviour) to the quite profound (loss of the night sky humanity has always had). The next time you're out past Jordon River, or in Manning Park on a clear, moonless night ... look up.

Most folks used to city skies will gasp at the view provided from a truly dark sky. Standing on the lookout in Manning Park on a moonless night, the Milky Way is bright enough to cast your shadow onto the ground!

 

As noted by FogPub, any resident who feels street light is intruding on either their home, or their activities (back-yard astronomy) can request a light shield be placed on the offending light, although these requests are far less common with the full-cutoff LED lighting. Either way, Saanich will respond eventually (as they did for me when I requested a shield for a streetlight shining into my daughters bedroom window).

 

BTW ... Saanich has very specific lighting language in its by-laws that relate specifically to a radius around Little Saanich Mountain and the DAO, including a complete ban on all sodium and mercury vapour lighting, either as street lights, or as security lighting on private homes and businesses :

 

 

LIGHTING STANDARDS

I Wavelength Distribution of Radiant Energy

1. Except as noted in Sections I (2) and I (3), the wavelength distribution of light emitted by all outdoor light fixtures shall minimize interference with the Dominion Astrophysical Observatory and comply with the specifications contained in Note #1. The effect of this regulation is to prohibit the use of luminaires which emit excessive blue light and/or red light with emission lines.

Note #1:

a) less than 5 percent of the total emergent flux between the wavelengths of 330 and 950 nanometres (nm) shall be at wavelengths less than 440 nm.

The foregoing information is not necessary for projects that are located outside of

Page 19 of 23

Municipal Outdoor Lighting Standards Schedule A Sign Bylaw, 2006, No. 8789

2. b)  lessthan20percentofthetotalemergentfluxbetweenthewavelengthsof 330 and 950 nm shall be at wavelengths less than 540 nm.

3. c)  less than 15 percent of the total emergent flux between 330 and 950 nm shall be at wavelengths greater than 640 nm, except that no restrictions shall apply to this range if the radiant energy distribution of the lamp is a smooth continuum without emission lines anywhere in the wave length range 330 - 950 nm.

2. The use of Metal Halide, Mercury Vapour, and Quartz outdoor lighting is prohibited within 5 km of the Dominion Astrophysical Observatory except as provided in Sections I (3) and I (4).

3. The restrictions in this section, except for the prohibition of Metal Halide lights, shall not apply to lights that illuminate areas used for the outdoor display of merchandise for sale and public and private outdoor recreation areas.

   It is recommended that lighting used for such purposes be turned down to “Security Levels” after 2300 hours unless the irregular schedule of the business or facility makes this impractical.

4. All outdoor lighting for advertising signs shall comply with the Municipal “Sign Bylaw, 2006, No. 8789” and amendments thereto or any successor bylaw.

 

 

[Mike K.]

There’s still just as few stars in the sky with these new lights as when we had the old lights.

[Spy Black]

There’s still just as few stars in the sky with these new lights as when we had the old lights.

Streetlights are only one of a great many sources of light pollution, but as the adage makes note ... "you've got to start somewhere".

 

The local Victoria chapter of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada has an entire committee, represented locally, regionally, and nationally that focuses on reducing light pollution. That focus stems primarily from the astronomical requirement for dark skies, but is also broader in scope, and includes those reasons I touched on above. 

 

But you're absolutely correct Mike, nothing is going to fix the current inability to see the night sky in our lifetimes ... that said, the approach is two-pronged, in that first you have to stop light pollution from getting any worse, and then you have to put measures in place that start to reduce it. it's a multi-generational process.

The new LED streetlights are definitely part of that "start", and (luckily) one that is happening throughout the developed world. Of course the bean-counters are primarily looking for (and getting) substantial energy cost savings, and taking the reduction in light pollution as part of the package.

(BTW, the Saanich lighting by-law has long kept the DAO in business, still the largest and busiest major observatory in Canada, in a part of Saanich that's undeniably and very noticeably "darker" than much of the remainder of the municipality).

 

I get that some folks don't consider light pollution to be an issue of concern, and that's fine as it does tend to be a niche issue ... but for many it's definitely worthy of trying to slow down, and eventually reduce.

 

I envy that farmer in the Prairies, or the Plains ... the one that sits on his porch under Bortle Class 1 dark skies at night, and who can almost read the newspaper just from the light of the Milky Way

To demonstrate how recent light pollution is, that same farmers father and mother likely waited on the same porch back in the '30's hoping to catch sight of the crew running electricity into their county or region, for up until that time most homes were illuminated at night with Coleman lanterns, or "whole house" Coleman gas lighting systems. 

There are lots of places on the Canadian Prairies that didn't have electricity until the late 1930's ... so the whole "light pollution" issue is a relatively recent concern.

[AllseeingEye]

I have always thought that this region as a whole was very dimly lit - in some cases dangerously so - particularly compared to other Canadian cities I have driven in at night; I commented on it some years ago on this forum and was taken to task by an older, very caustic and crusty VV member who no longer posts here "......well I like it that way!!" heh. 

[Mike K.]

Yeah, it’s too dim. It’s not safe.