519 replies to this topic

[rayne_k]

Here's a slight tangent, the "new City Hall" in London is already a few years old... when does it stop being the new city hall and just become "City hall" Did they leave the old one up?

I'm not being ciritcal, it is one of my fave buildings in London, just curious.

[Holden West]

^Don't hold your breath. New Scotland Yard dates to 1890.

I think the best and most honest way of evaluating this project is to forget which neighbourhood it's in and consider the architecture that immediately surrounds it. Unless the lawn bowling green is developed, CC is the last piece of the puzzle.

[Nparker]

LOL, Songhees, the Bay Centre and Convention Centre... all stand as grand examples of missed opportunties to do something modern and exciting, instead of "Disneyfying" our downtown core. Imagine if this same philosophy had been used by the original settlers of Victoria... we'd either be living in Longhouses or wonderful 21st century examples of neo-18th century architecture.

Why is it that Victoria still feels compelled at the dawn of a new millenium to always build fake heritage? Do we have no confidence in something that truly says "I was designed and built in the early 21st century using the best ideas and materials available at the time'? Personally I'd love to see us strike out boldy and do like London (UK), and place wonderful contemporary structures along side our (few) wonderful examples of historical buildings. I think this showcases the beauty in both.

Good buildings are like people; the beauty comes out of variety, not verisimilitude. Perpetuating the myth that all good architecture ended in 1915, is like saying only 6ft blonde Scandinavians are the only beautiful people (btw I am NOT a 6ft blond Scandinavian). It's absurd to think this about humans and equally absurd to condoneit in our architecture.

Let's get on with being a city proud to say it belongs to the world of the 21st century, and not some mediocre facsimile of a Victorian England forever frozen in time.

[Caramia]

Bah I like the convention center. It is a building that feels lovely to be in, and the courtyard is one of my favourite semi-public summer spaces.

No argument about the other two though.

[Nparker]

The Convention Centre works fairly well on the interior, but the courtyard is cold and uninviting (albeit quiet) and the retail strip along Douglas is a complete mess. The ultimate in setback disaster.

[Icebergalley]

Bah I like the convention center. It is a building that feels lovely to be in, and the courtyard is one of my favourite semi-public summer spaces.

.

Wonder what they are doing with the fountain.. It's shut down and enclosed in one of the two convention tents that have been recently installed again...

That fountain is incrediblly important to the ambience of the space... if you have ever been in the area with it shut off, you will appreciate the effect it's "noisy" water has on all the fans and blowers and compressors that are part of the Empress and the VCC...

[Caramia]

Yeah I like to curl up with a book near the fountain in the summer among the vines, I feel like I am back in Croatia. I hadn't seen that it was shut off, I hope it is turned back on this summer. I disagree about the courtyard being uninviting. However, I conceed the retail strip is Yuck!

[m0nkyman]

And it's totally underbuilt.

[Kapten Kapsell]

I noticed a large number of retail vacancies in the Convention Centre shops along Douglas Street...

[Mike K.]

TOWER PLANS VIEWED DIMLY

By Brennan Clarke
News staff
Apr 18 2007

Developer offers to pay for new art gallery exhibit space in return for “400 per cent” density lift

Plans to replace Crystal Court Motel with a new art gallery at the foot of Blanshard Street include a 21-storey condominium tower, the project’s developer told members of the James Bay Environmental Association last week.

Vancouver-based Westbank Properties is proposing a 25,000 square-foot art gallery at the Douglas Street end of the Crystal Court property and a high-rise of either 19 or 21 storeys closer to Blanshard Street.

Under a partnership agreement with the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria, Westbank is offering to fund a new $5 million exhibition space in return for a major increase in the density currently allowed on the site.

Most of those who spoke at the James Bay Environmental Association’s annual general meeting Wednesday welcomed the idea of an art gallery on the site, but objected to the size of the accompanying condo tower.

Marg Gardner, secretary-treasurer of the neighbourhood group, said each floor of the high rise represents a million-dollar profit for the developer and argued that “the gallery would be paid off by the time you got to the 10th or 11th storey.”

Gardner also pointed out that the city’s bonus-density policy, which offers extra density in return for community “amenities,” does not apply to the Crystal Court property.

Longtime James Bay resident Marc Pakenham said the recent spate of tall buildings approved by Victoria council is emboldening other developers to test the limits of city policy.

“We’re now seeing the effect of the (Hudson) Bay site on Douglas Street spilling over into the James Bay neighbourhood,” Pakenham said. “This proposal is 400 per cent more than the allowable density. It is so out of character with the area that it’s in.”

Crystal Court Motel, recently purchased by Westbank, is a stone’s throw from several of the city’s most important heritage and tourist attractions – Royal B.C. Museum, Mungo Martin long house, St. Ann’s Academy, Crystal Garden, the Fairmont Empress Hotel and the provincial legislature.

“As presented we believe it will add to the congestion, with only one eastbound lane going down Belleville for access in and access out,” said Dallas Road resident Doug Craig.

Consultant Peter Joyce said initial studies indicate only a “two to three per cent increase in traffic from the development.”

Anthony Hartnell, owner of the Queen Victoria Hotel immediately behind Crystal Court, said Westbank officials have consulted him and agreed to erect a taller, thinner building that would minimize the impact on his hotel’s views of the Inner Harbour.

“For me, a seven-storey squat is the worst possible design. That would block about 60 per cent of the views on the south side of my building,” Hartnell said.

“What these developers have in mind is not perfect but it’s certainly 10 times better than the alternative.”

Outside the meeting, Westbank president Bob Pearce said height of the tower is a result of factors such as rising construction costs and skyrocketing real estate prices.

“It’s not about what you can get. It’s a function of what the marketplace dictates,” he said.

mailto:bclarke@vicnews.com

[m0nkyman]

“We’re now seeing the effect of the (Hudson) Bay site on Douglas Street spilling over into the James Bay neighbourhood,” Pakenham said. “This proposal is 400 per cent more than the allowable density. It is so out of character with the area that it’s in.”

ahem.


That'd be the Crystal Court at the bottom of the hill.

[Galvanized]

Marg Gardner, secretary-treasurer of the neighbourhood group, said each floor of the high rise represents a million-dollar profit for the developer and argued that “the gallery would be paid off by the time you got to the 10th or 11th storey.”

Gardner also pointed out that the city’s bonus-density policy, which offers extra density in return for community “amenities,” does not apply to the Crystal Court property.

That's right the downtown policy does not apply but that doesn't mean it outlaws a developer from offering an amenity in turn for more density outside downtown.

Longtime James Bay resident Marc Pakenham said the recent spate of tall buildings approved by Victoria council is emboldening other developers to test the limits of city policy.

“We’re now seeing the effect of the (Hudson) Bay site on Douglas Street spilling over into the James Bay neighbourhood,” Pakenham said. “This proposal is 400 per cent more than the allowable density. It is so out of character with the area that it’s in.”

I was waiting for a quote like this! Hit replay for every new project in Victoria!

Anthony Hartnell, owner of the Queen Victoria Hotel immediately behind Crystal Court, said Westbank officials have consulted him and agreed to erect a taller, thinner building that would minimize the impact on his hotel’s views of the Inner Harbour.

“For me, a seven-storey squat is the worst possible design. That would block about 60 per cent of the views on the south side of my building,” Hartnell said.

“What these developers have in mind is not perfect but it’s certainly 10 times better than the alternative.”

Outside the meeting, Westbank president Bob Pearce said height of the tower is a result of factors such as rising construction costs and skyrocketing real estate prices.

“It’s not about what you can get. It’s a function of what the marketplace dictates,” he said.

It's nice to see Mr Clarke get other angles of an issue rather than the negative one. And way to go for actually quoting the proponent!

[G-Man]

While some may see this as an improvement for Mr. Clarke I see it as more of the same old. Just look at the title, " Tower plans viewed dimly"

Developer offers to pay for new art gallery exhibit space in return for “400 per cent” density lift

Marg Gardner, secretary-treasurer of the neighbourhood group, said each floor of the high rise represents a million-dollar profit for the developer and argued that “the gallery would be paid off by the time you got to the 10th or 11th storey.”

This quote kills me. I mean once again there is this perception that people should be buildings for free. Also I question whether each floor beyond this point would represent a million dollar profit. With a tower like this we are looking at three or four units a floor and less higher up. They may be getting a couple of million in gross income but that is before construction costs, marketing, taxes, and realestate fees are factored in. I would bet that walk away profit would be more in the 300 to 400 thousand dollars of walk away profit per floor.

“We’re now seeing the effect of the (Hudson) Bay site on Douglas Street spilling over into the James Bay neighbourhood,” Pakenham said. “This proposal is 400 per cent more than the allowable density. It is so out of character with the area that it’s in.”

Has this guy walked around the Humboldt Valley recently? This building is the character.

Crystal Court Motel, recently purchased by Westbank, is a stone’s throw from several of the city’s most important heritage and tourist attractions – Royal B.C. Museum, Mungo Martin long house, St. Ann’s Academy, Crystal Garden, the Fairmont Empress Hotel and the provincial legislature.

And?

[Mike K.]

While some may see this as an improvement for Mr. Clarke I see it as more of the same old. Just look at the title, " Tower plans viewed dimly"

That's precisely why I didn't increase the font size of the title like I usually do. This particular title doesn't deserve it

[G-Man]

So true sorry I pointed it out...

[zingzamzoom]

This city really drives me nuts. That article is full of contradictions that have no bearing in reality at all. Of course, they have all been pointed out already by other members.... It seems that a 21 story tower would fit in quite well when opposite of it sits a tower that is 20 stories tall. Most ironic though is the fact that James Bay is home to Victoria's current tallest, so, in fact a matching tower would fit best IN James Bay. These people are silly. Why is height such a scary thing? Move the city forward people, not backwards.

Aaron

[Baro]

Victoria currently has two sort of highrise clusters. There's the CIBC building to the Y-lot in "downtown" and then there's the james bay highrises (the tallest in the city). This building is smack dab in the middle and will act as a conection between the two clusters, which really are only seperated by a few blocks.

so we've got from north to south looking from the harbour a12 story, 14 story, 18 story, 20 story, nothing, 20 story, 17 story, 14 story, 12 story just to name a few.

Hmmmm what number would fit into this pattern in the 'nothing spot' ? Obviously not a 19-21 story building! Totally out of place! 2:1 fsr 3 story only please! What?? The gallery can't be built without the project as a whole? Greedy developer's lies! I demand the city cast a magic wand and the developers simply give the money for no reason, otherwise I rather have nothing or wait 50 years on a vauge assumption that something else will come along some time.

[aastra]

... each floor of the high rise represents a million-dollar profit for the developer and argued that “the gallery would be paid off by the time you got to the 10th or 11th storey.”

So we're saying you can reap a guaranteed $20 million profit by building a $60 million highrise? If true, it seems even the developers themselves don't realize how obscenely profitable the Victoria market is. How else to explain the handful of highrise proposals around town over the past several years?

Heck, if those numbers were even close to realistic, you and I and everyone else would be getting together to build highrise condo buildings.

[aastra]

Crystal Court Motel...is a stone’s throw from several of the city’s most important heritage and tourist attractions – Royal B.C. Museum, Mungo Martin long house, St. Ann’s Academy, Crystal Garden, the Fairmont Empress Hotel and the provincial legislature.

Darned editors. They must have trimmed out the rest of the sentence, the part about how the area around the Crystal Court is being transformed into a high density residential neighbourhood. The transformation has been happening slowly but surely for the past 30 years or so, starting with the Savoy and its immediate neighbours. That faux art deco building behind the QV Hotel was next. Then came City Place, and then Astoria and Belvedere. Aria is under construction as we speak, as is the Falls.

Heck, you could argue the trend started even before the Savoy came on the scene: there's also that ancient junior highrise behind St. Ann's Academy.

When you consider the bigger picture, the notion of introducing a residential highrise building into the mix doesn't seem quite so ludicrous after all.

[hungryryno]

Marg Gardner, secretary-treasurer of the James Bay whatever... sounds like a well educated person to say such smart things... especially about the profit / floor thing and the 21-storey condo wouldn't fit in the area thing!!!

Marg Gardner for Mayor

maybe she has some stakes in the QV hotel and doesn't want her view of all the other high-rises ruined... for the tourists of course :shock:


Seriously though, why is it that the T-C only interviews or quotes the rally good ones???