15 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Land-use and transportation in the Tillicum-Burnside neighbourhood will be under the microscope for the next 18 months, after Saanich council endorsed terms of reference for the comprehensive study.

 

Mayor Dean Murdock said council has heard from residents and community association members about the need for an up-to-date plan for the area, bordered by the Gorge Waterway to the south, the Trans-Canada Highway to the north, Harriet Road to the east and Cuthbert Holmes Park and Tillicum Centre to the west.

 

The study will look at four key areas: the Tillicum Burnside centre, the Tillicum corridor, the Burnside corridor and Gorge Village.

 

The work, which comes with a $250,000 pricetag, will start this winter after council adoption, and run for about 18 months, with a final report due in the spring of 2026.

 

https://www.timescol...-winter-9872971

[Barrister]

I actually wonder what happens to all these plans if the Canadian population is actually stabilized and stops growing. Victoria might actually be impacted more than some regions in Canada espicially since the number of people reaching 65 is less than the number either dying or going into nursing homes. There is a culling of the baby boom out of the regular housing market.

[Mike K.]

There is no culling, not quite yet, anyway.

The peak of the boomers reaching retirement age will end in 2028. That year and beyond, there will be less and less Canadians turning 65, but still a lot, and the monied boomers will want to retire in BC if they can. In other words, the boomer ramp in Victoria started in the 90s well before peak, and the impact will extend into the late 30s.

[Barrister]

Mike, I am not sure that your numbers are correct as to the number turning 65.

 

You might be missing the point that while people may be still moving to Victoria to retire, which is true, the numbers either dying or entering retirement homes is going to exceed those retiring. Any way you cut it the housing demand will be reduced. 

 

You need to take into account the off ramp as well as the on ramp. Nursing homes and retirement homes remove people from the traditional housing market as does death.

[Mike K.]

I suppose we'll worry about that when the time comes.

[Barrister]

If you are looking at a five year window for building a condo as a developer or more significantly if you are bank looking at financing then the time is right about now.

 

City planners should perhaps be giving some thought to this as well. It is possible that the days of the endless housing crisis just might be drawing to an end. 

[Mike K.]

The concern is how to provision the seniors with health care, not whether there will be a wane in housing demand over the next decade. There will be more demand for Island homes among retirees until the 2040s than there will be supply. The volumes are retirees are massive.

[Barrister]

Mike, I am not saying you are wrong but can you give some clarity on how you reach those numbers specifically and how you end up with those numbers spanning the next twenty years? I assume that you are not assuming that every retiree is going to come to Vancouver Island. 

[Victoria Watcher]

Saanich residents fear new Tillicum Burnside plan will repeat past failures

 

 

Community group criticizes planning process, warns of ‘unmet expectations and backlash’; mayor responds

 

 

 

 

 

Nearly 20 years later, the Gorge Tillicum Community Association (GTCA), which helped shape the plan, says little has been achieved. 

 

With zoning bylaws misaligned with the proposed plan, along with unrealistic timelines and budgets, the association says next to nothing came out of the 2005 plan beyond two apartment towers and minor street improvements.

 

With another plan underway that echoes similar goals and aspirations, the GTCA fears history will repeat itself with the Tillicum Burnside Plan (TBP), which has been in the works since December 2024.

 

In a letter to Saanich council and planning staff, association president Vera Wynn-Williams and vice-president Phil Lancaster urged the district to reconsider the plan, warning that the process could fall short again after completing its phase of public consultation.

 

“The primary purpose of the letter was to alert Saanich across the board… that there are things in the planning process that make no sense to us at all,” said Lancaster. “We're still stuck with the same problem of trying to get them to recognize that their process itself is flawed.”

 

After attending all engagement sessions, Wynn-Williams and Lancaster remain skeptical, calling the process “needlessly complicated and expensive,” and warning it could lead to “unmet expectations and community backlash.”

 

“There was so much confusion at the sessions themselves,” said Wynn-Williams. “(Council) is going to come up with a draft 10 months from now that, once again, people are gonna be like, ‘That's not what I said'.”

 

“The whole point of this process is to prevent public outcry by coming up with something that represents something like a consensus,” Lancaster added. “But it completely failed, both at a technical and political level.

 

“The engagement was terrible, the communications about the process were absolute crap, and here we are looking at what, to me, is still a bit of a secretive process because they won't share with us the results of any of their discussions with developers or business owners.”

 

 

https://www.vicnews....ailures-8206975

 

 

I love it.

 

 

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 August 2025 - 05:36 AM.

[Mike K.]

Think of how much money goes into these processes.

Now the province was OCPs updated every five years. Do you have any idea how much pressure that puts on a municipality?

[Bambam]

With zoning bylaws misaligned with the proposed plan, along with unrealistic timelines and budgets, the association says next to nothing came out of the 2005 plan beyond two apartment towers and minor street improvements.

 

Huh? There are "towers" in Tillicum-Burnside? Can someone please enlighten and point me in the direction of these two so-called "towers"?

[Victoria Watcher]

Some media will call 4 or 6 storey buildings towers.

Mike will set them straight.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 August 2025 - 08:12 AM.

[Mike K.]

What muddies the waters is planning documents themselves can refer to lowrise buildings as towers. It’s all in the context of the surrounding environment and/or the development plan.

I suppose the term is technically correct. A six storey building is indeed a tower adjacent to a rancher. But it should really be called a block at that height. If it were me, eight floors would qualify as a tower in Greater Victoria. 12 storeys makes a highrise.

[Bambam]

Yeah Victoria as a whole is strange this way; its clearly the residual "Vancouver" in me having lived there for a decade. I just cannot fathom four floors as being a "tower".

 

Anything up to four-six floors in YVR to us was a speed bump. Eight to ten was only barely noticeable. You didn't get into "tower" territory until at least 20 stories and even then....meh.

 

My last place there was on 12th Ave and roughly Hemlock. Our block and others immediately adjacent were all 3-6 floors of mostly older 1950's-70's rental stock. All very well maintained but older nonetheless. Across from us on 12th Ave OTOH were a series of later era (1980's) and taller buildings ranging from 10-25/ish stories. They barely registered on anyone's radar. You wanted to view the downtown or the mountains or be in the sunlight & out of the shade of those nasty towers? Don't whine about it - move 20 feet to your left or right. 

[Mike K.]

Well hold on now, cowboy!

If we care about semantics, I think someone would have to move closer to 150 feet to get out of the shadow zone of a big building. 20 feet is about the size of a large sedan.

[Bambam]

Not if the building is across the street as it was in my case, on a diagonal and maybe 50 meters away lol. A few steps either way on 12th Ave and "presto" there are the north shore mountains. The actual point being I can't offhand name a single 'major' city that would refer with a straight face to a four floor building as a "tower". The tallest building in Tillicum-Gorge will be the one under construction down Burnside from the mall beside the Shell station, and its going to be all of six floors I believe. Otherwise the area has a bunch of non-descript four floor buildings much like Cook St south of Fort or along Shelbourne south of Hillside. .