49 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

In short, this isn't a crisis at the Mac at all, if anything, it's the Mac being treated as a political football.

It's ultimately the City of Victoria declaring that it will no longer accept that they will be the only funder of a regional facility that's used heavily by each and every one of the numerous municipalities that make up the CRD. 

The Mac is also a facility that see's its patrons come in from all of the varying municipalities, thus truly fitting the definition of a regional facility.

 

I thought that the MAC was losing like $750K a year which is why the City wanted the other munis to share the load.

[Victoria Watcher]

I agree Blair.

[Blair M.]

I thought that the MAC was losing like $750K a year which is why the City wanted the other munis to share the load.

The RMTS gets a $750K grant to operate the building on behalf of its owners. 
That money pays for heat, hot water, building maintenance, vandalism, operational costs, etc. 

Portions of it also pay for ongoing seismic upgrading, roof repair/replacement, and other major expenditures, etc. 

 

Ultimately, it’s a much loved 125 year old building that had no maintenance done to it until around 1965, and scant maintenance done after that, until the RMTS (previously the McPherson Foundation) took over.
Heritage buildings certainly aren’t inexpensive to operate, especially one operating as a theatre. 

 

The City wants a regional support structure simply because the Mac is a bonafide regional facility.
For Victoria politicians, it’s all about what they see as politically “fair”. 

[Victoria Watcher]

To play devils advocate, if I was given a (insert the value) performance centre for free, no mortgage or rent, will I still lose $750,000 a year operating it, renting it out to users?

Or only if I’m government?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 December 2024 - 12:08 PM.

[Blair M.]

When you found out suddenly that around 3 million dollars worth of seismic upgrades were required, you’d realize that it’s a much more complex puzzle than it might first appear!
 

But the answer to your question could be “maybe” - “maybe not”.
 

If you could sell out every show at $100.00 per ticket, and had productions in all the time, you’d very likely break even or perhaps turn a small profit. (but remember that 3 million dollar seismic invoice that’s now yours alone to deal with). 

 

For most regional theatres, simply breaking even is an unattainable pipe dream. 

[Victoria Watcher]

Put aside the $3M issue. Let’s pretend someone will cover it.

Can I make a profit renting the place?

If I can’t make any profit renting a free-to-me venue then it’s probably hopeless. I literally have no expenses outside of show night, but every time I run a show my expenses do not cover my rent. That’s wrong.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 December 2024 - 12:28 PM.

[Blair M.]

That’s wrong.

That’s reality unfortunately.

The arts (and a facility in which to view them) require some degree of public support, or they usually don’t exist.
No different than any other facility (as noted earlier) designed and/or intended for the betterment of the community.

Your view is, however, undeniably shared by many.

But generally speaking, more people have a view which supports public dollars in supporting those endeavours and facilities that tend to make life more enjoyable - than not.

Of course, that fractional balance can change at any time!

Edited by Blair M., 10 December 2024 - 12:41 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

But our arena, owned by the City but operated by a third party on a long-term lease requires no subsidy. In fact it returns profit to the City each year.

Why can’t the Mac follow this model?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 December 2024 - 12:45 PM.

[Blair M.]

I’m being a bit facetious here, but what small, local theatre production did you last see at the arena?

Taylor Swift just closed out a tour with multi-billion dollar profits.
Nobody is implying that some forms of entertainment can’t make a profit - but in live entertainment, you always have to look at scale, as well as delineate between pop culture and sports - and more legitimate theatre.

[Victoria Watcher]

The last few things I saw at Mac were a magic show and an ABBA tribute thing. And that Scottish late night talk show host. Ferguson.

Why can’t they cover costs?

The comedian from Python - Cleese- sold out like 8 shows in a row but we subsidised every one for some reason. Did he need our subsidy to make profit?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 December 2024 - 12:57 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Should Victoria taxpayers subsidize each of these international shows:

Craig Ferguson (Scotland)
John Cleese ((England)
ABBA tribute (USA)

???

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 December 2024 - 01:00 PM.

[Blair M.]

On a show by show basis, especially popular shows, costs are very often covered.
In fact on a good night, your bar, concession, and merch will cover the wages of your entire FOH staff and then some.

But that’s only that specific show, there are still tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars required for maintenance and operations of the theatre itself, and covering the (too) many shows that don’t make a profit.

If you had a lot of money, and we’re looking to invest it in a profit making endeavour, a theatre is literally the last place you’d look.

If under the same circumstances you wished to invest in something that would offer more of a personal legacy, theatre and the arts are a common recipient of such magnanimous giving.

Far from a great business for the private individual, which is why 99% of all theatres outside Manhattan and London are public facilities.

[Victoria Watcher]

Victoria council to consider $250K grant for new performing arts venue

 

 

The grant to The Other Guise Theatre Company is seen as pivotal in ensuring the venue — in a former grocery store on Johnson Street — goes ahead

 

 

https://www.timescol...-venue-10082952

 

 

 

The goal for the space at 716 Johnson St. is to become a kind of community arts hub. The city grant would be a key part of fundraising efforts to repay a $1.8-million loan the theatre company was given in 2022 when it bought the former Tomley Market building.

 

Kate Kempton, who provided the forgivable loan to purchase the building, is now ill and has been forced to recall the loan.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 January 2025 - 05:08 AM.

[Mike K.]

There’s a lot happening right now, behind the scenes.

Interesting that the City has pledged money to this organization when there is another big move on the horizon.

[Barrister]

More friends of the party, is this really where our tax budget needs to go?

[Victoria Watcher]

Tie vote kills theatre group's request for $250K city grant for arts venue

 

 

The Other Guise Theatre Company had sought the money in its efforts to open a new downtown arts hub in the former Tomley’s Market on Johnson Street

 

 

https://www.timescol...-venue-10089315

 

 

 

 

Councillors Stephen Hammond, Marg Gardiner and Krista Loughton all voted against awarding the money.

 

Hammond said despite plans to register a mortgage, there was no guarantee the city would get its money back if the grant was advanced and the building had to be sold down the line.

 

“If this is a good project, then presumably there are other organizations that can also fund this project,” he said. “And it doesn’t have to be at the cost of the taxpayers.”

 

Gardiner said taxpayers can’t be asked to provide funding for entertainment venues that owe money to benefactors.

 

“The use of a major event program for acquisition funding or purchase of an entertainment venue is not appropriate in my mind,” she said, adding providing the grant could open the floodgates to other requests.

 

Loughton suggested the application came at the wrong time, with the city facing a double-digit tax increase this year.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2025 - 12:27 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Can't they find 2,500 "arts supporters" on the Island to pitch in $100 each?

[Blair M.]

The project is likely dead without support from the City of Victoria.

It's a crying shame, but not surprising considering the players who voted the grant down.

Here's a simple metric, one worth reading a couple of times for clarity, and one demonstrating how the City of Victoria Mayor and Council continue in their failure to support an improved quality of life in Victoria:

 

1. SOLID - the City of Victoria provides a forgivable grant for $300,000.00 tax dollars to facilitate drug dealers in their sale of illegal drugs, and allow for consumption of those drugs to addicts, criminals, and the mentally ill.
2. The Other Guise Theatre Company - The City of Victoria provides $0.00 to facilitate a professional arts hub for thousands of children and adults to enjoy learning about, and participating in the creation of live theatre. 

Maybe The Other Guise would have better luck out in the Westshore, with their amazing new swimming pools, safe parks, easy and free parking, multiple new restaurants, and amazing shopping?

The Westshore is on record as looking to seriously begin their support the arts in the region.

So is this just another nail of many nails in the City of Victoria's coffin? - or is it to be expected and accepted as par for the course in 2025?

 

[Victoria Watcher]

1. The Other Guise Theatre Company - The City of Victoria provides $0.00 to facilitate a professional arts hub for thousands of children and adults to enjoy learning about, and participating in the creation of live theatre. 

 

Can we get some buy-in from some of these thousands of families?

 

Or a private lender that sees the financial return coming?

[Blair M.]

Can we get some buy-in from some of these thousands of families?

 

Or a private lender that sees the financial return coming?

That would seem to be the only route forward, if indeed there is a route forward to be had.

I would guess at this point though, there is no clear route forward, and the project is now shelved.

 

Unfortunately, when your local or regional government has very publicly indicated that it is unwilling to support your endeavour, it's difficult or impossible to then get that support from the private sector.

 

As noted in earlier posts, there's a reason local, regional, and provincial governments are required to support non-moneymaking undertakings (like the arts, sports facilities, etc) designed to make life a little better.

It's the same reason the City of Victoria is asking for $300 million dollars to construct a new pool with no expectation that a "new" pool will ever make a single cent of profit - some undertakings simply aren't designed to make a profit, rather they are intended to improve overall quality of life in the region.