5667 replies to this topic

[nerka]

http://www.timescolo...bour-1.23205174

 

I am amazed how smoothly it all appeared to go. Seems like an operation where a lot of things could have gone wrong, but mostly didn't.

 

I biked by this morning to check it out and it looked all done. Certainly no blockage of Dallas Road.

[Redd42]

Went by at about noon yesterday and the very end of the pipe was being pulled across Dallas at that time.

 

Just a bit of the pipe sticking out of the hole as of 7:30 pm yesterday so yes the pull is done. 

[tjv]

Not sure where responsibility for the snafu lies - the city or the contractor, however a van or taxi needs to running shuttles around the line for those who can't walk the few extra blocks - given the demographic of the rentals in that area of James Bay, there will be quite a few people impacted.

the city has zero responsibility in this regard.  the city or any government is not required to provide access, they can literally close off a business storefront access or driveway or house front door and are not liable for anything.

 

I remember dealing with these issues when I was in government years installing utilities.  It was even confirmed in the Supreme Court.

 

Unless there is something in the contract documents specifically dealing with this issue, the contractor is not responsible either

[VicHockeyFan]

People manage, no big deal.

[RFS]

An update from the air

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[VicHockeyFan]

Leave Victoria's 'raw sewage' alone, Alberta

 

Vilification of Victoria’s 'raw sewage' has been driven by a combination of politics, fear and emotional appeals. Sound familiar?

 

 

 

MORE:

 

http://nationalpost....e-alone-alberta

[Kungsberg]

Clover Point pump station has been fenced off for a while and work begun.

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[VicHockeyFan]

How Hartland Landfill could become a natural-gas factory

 

 

http://www.timescolo...tory-1.23292870

Gas from rotting waste at the Hartland Landfill might be better used as renewable natural gas than for generating electricity, Capital Regional District staff say.

 

Since 2003, the CRD has been collecting and using methane gas created at the Hartland Landfill to generate power — enough electricity for 1,100 homes.

Hartland’s power generation facility is able to use only about 50 per cent of the gas that’s collected, Smith said. The rest is flared.

Because there is so much surplus gas, staff have been investigating other options.

Twinning the power plant would be simple, he said, as the plant was designed with twinning in mind.

Both the green power option and the renewable natural gas option have environmental benefits, as they are destroying the methane, he said.

 

 

Committee chairwoman Judy Brownoff noted: “Some of us have been calling Hartland Landfill the Hartland Energy Centre Committee [from] a long time ago as we were generating energy with B.C. Hydro.” She said she is excited to see the results of the business analysis.

Saanich Coun. Dean Murdock called the idea “terrific.”

“One person’s waste is another person’s renewable natural gas,” he said.

So before we go all back-slapping one another and telling ourselves how great we are, I have questions...

 

Why are we flaring off gas daily and how long have we been flaring off so much, without thinking how to use it?

 

And before you cal this thing an amazing energy centre, let's see the stats on energy and costs to collect and truck this stuff to Hartland.  I suggest it's many dozens or hundreds of times more energy than the relatively paltry 100-homes-worth we get.

 

Households in BC average 900kwh per month.    If we are generous, that costs them 10 cents, or $90/mo.  x 1100 homes, and we have $99,000/mo.  Now what do you think it costs to run the dump, as well as pay the salaries of all the various municipal and private garbage collectors, pay for their their trucks and fuel and maintenance for a month?   I think very conservatively it's over $5M per month.  

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 06 May 2018 - 05:41 AM.

[Sparky]

....and remember....that last "woof" you hear ain't no dog.

 

Is there the appropriate oversight in place in order to operate as a gas factory?

[JohnN]

OMG! All the fury over "food security" in 2011 meant turning food scraps into compost and thus created huge churning in the CRD's sewage committee for years over this issue. Integrated resource management (IRM) consultants recommended in 2009 combining food scraps with sewage sludge for energy - but NO - CRD chose instead to compost food scraps. However, IMHO, one of the reasons for CRD wanting to put sewage sludge plant into Esquimalt in 2013 was because without food scraps, generating energy from just sewage sludge isn't going to work well (if at all). NOW coming full-circle while having just ditched IRM
Excerpt:
"The committee directed staff to do a business analysis that includes creating renewable natural gas from sewage treatment residue and food scraps, and explores funding sources for building the necessary facilities.

 

"How Hartland Landfill could become a natural-gas factory":

http://www.timescolo...tory-1.23292870

[VicHockeyFan]

If the current facility only generates $100,000 worth of electricity each month and the CRD actually gets less money than that as I suppose hydro buys it at best 5 cents a kWh so now you are down to $50,000 in actual payments how much did it cost to set up the system and how much does it cost to run it?

[JohnN]

 

http://www.timescolo...tory-1.23292870

 

 

So before we go all back-slapping one another and telling ourselves how great we are, I have questions...

 

Why are we flaring off gas daily and how long have we been flaring off so much, without thinking how to use it?

 

And before you cal this thing an amazing energy centre, let's see the stats on energy and costs to collect and truck this stuff to Hartland.  I suggest it's many dozens or hundreds of times more energy than the relatively paltry 100-homes-worth we get.

 

Households in BC average 900kwh per month.    If we are generous, that costs them 10 cents, or $90/mo.  x 1100 homes, and we have $99,000/mo.  Now what do you think it costs to run the dump, as well as pay the salaries of all the various municipal and private garbage collectors, pay for their their trucks and fuel and maintenance for a month?   I think very conservatively it's over $5M per month.  

 

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...ectricity-plant

[JohnN]

From 2005 a 35-page presentational document pdf:

 

Hartland Landfill - Landfill Management Excellence Award
Solid Waste Association of North America

http://www.cwma.bc.c...posal02_web.pdf

[VicHockeyFan]

I do not doubt it’s a well run facility. But is the operation efficient?

[lanforod]

Pretty sure we need the dump either way and the gas would be a byproduct either way. So may as well use it eh? This is a simple question: If there is a business case for adding gas plant capacity, do it.
Since we seem to be stuck with getting the sewage here, they may as well plan to use that as well.

[VicHockeyFan]

From Wikipedia:

Capture and use of landfill gas can be expensive. Some environmental groups claim that the projects do not produce "renewable power" because trash (their source) is not renewable. The Sierra Club opposes government subsidies for such projects.[12] The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) argues that government incentives should be directed more towards solar, wind, and energy-efficiency efforts.

[JohnN]

After the "food security" plan forbidding food scraps to be integrated with sewage sludge and garbage came in 2011, the whole CRD sewage treatment plan was thrown into turmoil. Previously, numerous consultants concluded that Waste-to-Energy (WTE) - digesting sludge, scraps and solid waste - was the way to go. However, after the big shift in 2011 (promoted by City of Victoria councillor Philip Lucas), the business case for for trying to do WTE from sludge and garden waste alone looked a lot weaker.

 

So weak that the CRD's sewage plant planners (ie, Jack Hull et al) couldn't see a business case for pumping the sludge uphill to Hartland and thus the planners landed on a secret plan to digest the sludge alone (together with some added FOGs fats, oils grease) at Esquimalt's 808 Viewfield Road site. In confidential meeting in 2013, CRD Board spent $17 million for the site and then presented the fait-accompli decision to the public - who naturally went nuts over the thought of a high-risk, 4-stack digester processing plant within 10 metres of closest homes, 30 metres to a day-care centre.

 

After a mammoth public outcry, demos, parades, acrimony, CRD backed down and Hartland it was again (to disappointment of Prospect Lake area folks who have a lot of drinking water wells in the area). 

 

So, pumping sludge to Hartland assumed that something could be done with the stuff there. However, the CRD's hope that they could just bury sludge in biocells was nixed by the Minister who said biocell storage could only be short term. Minister really was holding CRD feet to the fire because Minister really wanted CRD to spread the sludge on land - just like the rest of BC has to do. BUT - CRD had said no to the idea in 2011, not wanting treated sludge on farmland, parks etc in CRD. So, back to square one - but having dumped integrated waste management and WTE, CRD in a quandary. So its back to looking at WTE and integrating waste streams. New obstacle will be Minister wanting higher diversion rates for solid waste before allowing CRD to get into waste stream integration. 

 

Maybe CRD now figures this is the moment to spring a new idea on the NDP government, given all the NDP MLAs coming from the region? 

[JohnN]

Excerpt:

 

If the flows are too high — up to three times the average dry weather flows at Victoria’s Clover Point pump station and up to four times at Esquimalt’s Macaulay Point — sewage will receive only primary treatment and then be mixed with fully treated effluent, achieving a secondary treated standard. Any flows beyond that will only be screened and then pumped raw out to the existing outfalls, says the report.

 

- "Raw sewage could still spill into sea after treatment plant opens":

http://www.timescolo...pens-1.23297245

[Cassidy]

 

Excerpt:

 

If the flows are too high — up to three times the average dry weather flows at Victoria’s Clover Point pump station and up to four times at Esquimalt’s Macaulay Point — sewage will receive only primary treatment and then be mixed with fully treated effluent, achieving a secondary treated standard. Any flows beyond that will only be screened and then pumped raw out to the existing outfalls, says the report.

 

- "Raw sewage could still spill into sea after treatment plant opens":

http://www.timescolo...pens-1.23297245

 

Is this the first we've (or "they've") heard of this issue, or has it been a known issue all along, just not reported on or detailed?

 

Seems crazy that this new plant will still dump raw sewage into the ocean, despite the many millions of $$$$ being spent ... and that the public is just hearing about it now.

[Nparker]

...Seems crazy that this new plant will still dump raw sewage into the ocean, despite the many millions of $$$$ being spent ... and that the public is just hearing about it now.

If anyone believes much of the "facts" that brought about the sewage plant, I've got a $65 million, $92 million, $120 million bridge I can sell them.