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Sewage treatment in Victoria | McLoughlin Point Wastewater Treatment Plant


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Poll: What do you think of the report $1.2 billion Dollar sewage treatment cost. (77 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think of the report $1.2 billion Dollar sewage treatment cost.

  1. We need it and waited too long that is the cost of waiting too long! (65 votes [23.47%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.47%

  2. Local, Provincial, and Federal politicians will find a way to help cut down the price to property owners. (3 votes [1.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.08%

  3. Out of the question, too expensive for Greater Victoria. (122 votes [44.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 44.04%

  4. It expensive, but if we do nothing costs will only rise. (20 votes [7.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.22%

  5. We need to do it but greatly scale back the project. It has grwon out of hand. (34 votes [12.27%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.27%

  6. No opinion, I do not know enough about the project to say of the costs are out of line or not. (33 votes [11.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.91%

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#5461 spanky123

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 11:55 AM

Precient:

 

 

So basically after all these years and billions of dollars the same harmful chemicals that used to be dispersed into the ocean are now put into the local soil.

 

Which will leech into streams and then into the ocean.


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#5462 spanky123

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 11:58 AM

I can tell you from years on experience dealing with all levels and parties in Government that the standard answer to any issue is that it will be resolved next month. It is a war of attrition, they figure you won't report it as it is a non-story with so soon a resolution and figure you will eventually stop asking.


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#5463 todd

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 12:04 PM

Yes the region appears to be horribly incompetent in just about everything.

#5464 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 01:37 PM

when you spend a billion dollars on a facility you didn't need in the first place...


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#5465 Mike K.

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 02:12 PM

Hold on, we built a successful swimming pool in North Park, didn’t we?

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#5466 Nparker

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 02:39 PM

Hold on, we built a successful swimming pool in North Park, didn’t we?

Yes, in 1971.


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#5467 retiring@40

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Posted 16 June 2021 - 06:50 PM

Residuals plant was a P3 I believe, so if it doesn't work as intended then CRD doesn't pay.  



#5468 spanky123

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 08:07 AM

Residuals plant was a P3 I believe, so if it doesn't work as intended then CRD doesn't pay.  

 

That is not generally how it works though. The P3 pleads poverty and then the Government quietly ponies up extra money to avoid looking foolish for ever engaging the P3 in the first place. Speaking in general terms here obviously.

 

Bear in mind that wastewater treatment isn't rocket science. It has been around for a few years!


Edited by spanky123, 17 June 2021 - 08:12 AM.


#5469 retiring@40

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 10:26 AM

That is not generally how it works though. The P3 pleads poverty and then the Government quietly ponies up extra money to avoid looking foolish for ever engaging the P3 in the first place. Speaking in general terms here obviously.

 

Bear in mind that wastewater treatment isn't rocket science. It has been around for a few years!

 

I work in the investment field where our firm has looked a few P3's.  The public sector owner is definitely not on the hook for a significant portion of the construction cost should things go wrong.  P3's are structured so the SPV or P3 company puts up equity and takes out a loan (none recourse) to finance a significant portion of the construction cost (usually >50%).  That cost along with interest and an appropriate equity return is paid back to them over the life of the P3 contract from the public sector owner.  So if the thing doesn't work then there is no payment from the public owner and the lenders and P3 company are SOL.  That is the whole point of the P3, you pay more in exchange for protection for the life of the contract. Now of course maybe the CRD will be either nice or dumb enough to keep paying even if it doesn't work but they are not contractually obligated to.

 

P3's once in operation is usually pretty low risk free for a P3 company as they get a stable return on equity from a public sector counterparty.  


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#5470 spanky123

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 11:01 AM

^ I 100% agree with the goal of P3 agreements and what is strictly required. All that I am saying is that in my experience if a P3 company runs into technical or financial difficulty and there is a risk to the project and reputation of the civil servants who contracted with the P3 in the first place then extra money is often found. 



#5471 retiring@40

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 12:23 PM

^ I 100% agree with the goal of P3 agreements and what is strictly required. All that I am saying is that in my experience if a P3 company runs into technical or financial difficulty and there is a risk to the project and reputation of the civil servants who contracted with the P3 in the first place then extra money is often found. 

 

This does make sense, however, I jam not aware of any P3 projects where this has happened (do you have any examples?).  On the investor side we obviously would never take this "safety net" into consideration when bidding.

As for the residuals plant, I am sure once things are dialed in it will work as planned.  Like you said, wastewater isn't new and its' not rocket science but on such a big project I would expect some teething pains at first.



#5472 spanky123

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 12:27 PM

This does make sense, however, I jam not aware of any P3 projects where this has happened (do you have any examples?).  On the investor side we obviously would never take this "safety net" into consideration when bidding.

As for the residuals plant, I am sure once things are dialed in it will work as planned.  Like you said, wastewater isn't new and its' not rocket science but on such a big project I would expect some teething pains at first.

 

It is not a big project by wastewater standards. What may be true is that it is a big project for this O&M company and that may be part of the problem.



#5473 retiring@40

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 12:39 PM

Look like the O&M company Synagro is actually owned by a goldman sach's infra fund, the P3 consortium also includes two Canadian construction companies, Bird and Maple Reinders.



#5474 todd

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 03:33 PM

I think the foliage still needs to grow in a bit and the grass

Still looks about the same:
14E1704D-B5B6-42C5-A539-0ABDD9C7ED7E.jpeg

Edited by todd, 24 July 2021 - 03:36 PM.


#5475 Nparker

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 03:38 PM

Would it be wrong to say this project looks like s**t?


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#5476 todd

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 05:15 PM

Would it be wrong to say this project looks like s**t?

if I didn’t know I probably would think it was a factory or something. a nice new factory.

#5477 A Girl is No one

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 05:42 AM

It is butt ugly and it’s very visible from the west Songhees walkway….
I really hope they plant trees around it to hide it.

#5478 Spy Black

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 05:58 AM

I think it looks highly functional, and optically is more than acceptable considering its design requirements are less influenced by how the neighbourhood might like it to look, and more influenced by the extremely vertical duties the building is actually obliged to perform.

 

Like hospitals, theatres, water treatment plants and the like ... some buildings have to "look" as their function requires that they look ... rather than how somebody might think they should look.



#5479 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 06:21 AM

except to help sell the public on this we were shown examples that specifically did NOT look like sewage plants.

Such as this “wedding venue”:

https://www.treehugg...hotspot-4867263

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 July 2021 - 06:24 AM.

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#5480 Rob Randall

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 07:20 AM

Citizens: "We're afraid it's going to look industrial and unsightly"

CRD: "It doesn't have to look like that, see these examples"

Narrator: "It ended up looking like that".


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