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Victoria homelessness and street-related issues


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#18921 On the Level

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:57 AM

An interesting paper on Housing First;

 

 

Only with analyses that can look broadly at homelessness, not just by group, and its impacts across service sectors and broader society will we have better understanding of the implications homelessness has for society. Even by increasing the scope of our research, while providing valuable insights into the nature of the problem, this evidence cannot determine the complex, contextual and ultimate value based decision making that should be a part of the democratic policy process.
 
In terms of the political arena, John Maynard Keynes once said “there is nothing a politician likes so little as to be well informed; it makes decision-making so complex and difficult”. Evidence based policy may, in fact, be a strategy to simplify decision-making, but the result is that politicians are not well-informed in the broader sense. Whereas, by being informed by a democratic process and from an inclusive knowledge base, policy makers can then genuinely grapple with decisions that are about sharing limited resources and improving the human condition which are, and always will be, complex and difficult.

 

http://web.pdx.edu/~...CaseHousing.pdf



#18922 aastra

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:53 PM

 

The park is really starting to remind me of the court house tent city. Piling garbage, tents everywhere. Breaks my heart.

 

Everyone needs to remember the job that was done on the courthouse property in the wake of the tenting there. Methinks they may be setting the stage for some significant alterations to BHP. Or maybe they're just serving up yet another heaping dose of cognitive dissonance? Hardcore tenting in one place necessitates extensive remediation, whereas hardcore tenting in another place does not? Because politics?

 

 

The testing of soil samples determined the presence of residual contaminants, including lead, gasoline, diesel and trace amounts of methamphetamines, following the existence of a homeless camp. Soil remediation will remove these contaminants from the ground and restore the landscape into a safe public space and playground for everyone to enjoy.

 

Two arborists have been involved in reviewing the condition of the landscape and the trees on the site and surrounding area. Of the 20 trees at the courthouse site, 11 are healthy and will be preserved. Every effort will be made to preserve as many of the established trees as is safe.

 

Nine trees have been identified as having shallow roots, making them unsafe and unlikely to survive the soil remediation. These include seven crimson king maples, one tree of heaven and one rubinia. These trees will be removed and new trees will be planted to improve sightlines and increase public safety. Crime prevention through an environmental design approach will be taken.

 

...the top .46 metres (1.5 feet) of soil will be dug up, removed by truck and replaced with new top soil.

from https://news.gov.bc....TICS0002-000057


#18923 aastra

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:55 PM

I know it rubs many people the wrong way when I say it, but inventing excuses to chop trees (on public property) has been integral to the 21st-century faux-environmental movement.



#18924 Rob Randall

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:02 PM

In Beacon Hill Park the lethal contaminants are somewhat spread out, making it completely and utterly safe.

 

I think.


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#18925 aastra

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:23 PM

 

It is not rocket science, Mayor Krog in Nanaimo solved the problem. When was the last time you heard about homeless people overwhelming resources there?

 

One place solves its own problems by pushing the problems to another place? That approach doesn't solve anything. This is precisely why the issues have been artificially concentrated in places like downtown Victoria or Vancouver's downtown east side. In order for this game to continue, other places must push their issues to the designated centres. It's all part of the program, otherwise you wouldn't have the distorted concentrations necessary to justify the massive public funding (or to produce the easy profits for various other players, if you get my meaning).

 

What about Saanich or Langford? What about Burnaby or North Vancouver? Did they also solve the problem? Of course not.

 

Any legitimate effort to address (mitigate, alleviate, resolve) the issues would be distributed and de-urbanized and local community-based, instead of funneling everyone & everything deep into the heart of the biggest cities. If people in Kamloops are out of shape, do we tell them to go get a gym membership in downtown Victoria? If people in Parksville have cavities, do we tell them to go see a dentist in downtown Victoria? If there's a fire in Penticton, do we ship the fire to downtown Victoria so Vic FD can extinguish it?

 

The artificial urban concentration serves the support industries and the aggravation industries. It doesn't have anything to do with helping people.


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#18926 mbjj

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:19 PM

Has the Mayor not stated several times that she cycles down Pandora Avenue every day? She has no issues with anything she has seen on Pandora Avenue? Nothing? Every inch of green space on Pandora is currently surrounded by ugly fencing. There is a huge pile of chattel outside Wellburns this am. People walking around in various states of undress, including several with no shoes. We had to run an errand in town this am and it is like driving though parts of East LA. 

Last week we saw a fellow dressed rather nattily in a woman's cream-coloured silk bathroom with embossed collar. No idea if there were other clothes underneath.



#18927 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:24 PM

a guy dressed as a bathroom seems problematic for sure.

porcelain pollution.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 August 2020 - 02:25 PM.

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#18928 aastra

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:40 PM

 

...we saw a fellow dressed rather nattily in a woman's cream-coloured silk bathroom...

 

Whose bathroom was it and why were you in it?

 

Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood. You're saying you saw a fellow who was dressed as a bathroom.



#18929 aastra

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:45 PM

Bathroom costumes are acceptable in Victoria, but skyscraper costumes are prohibited by zoning regulations.



#18930 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:01 PM

Has the Mayor not stated several times that she cycles down Pandora Avenue every day? She has no issues with anything she has seen on Pandora Avenue? Nothing? Every inch of green space on Pandora is currently surrounded by ugly fencing. There is a huge pile of chattel outside Wellburns this am. People walking around in various states of undress, including several with no shoes. We had to run an errand in town this am and it is like driving though parts of East LA. 

 

The fact the mayor is A-OK with this should be a big red flag for 85 percent of Victoria.  


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#18931 Nparker

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:11 PM

 

The artificial urban concentration serves the support industries and the aggravation industries. It doesn't have anything to do with helping people.

Well said.


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#18932 JimV

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:16 PM

In Beacon Hill Park the lethal contaminants are somewhat spread out, making it completely and utterly safe.

 

I think.

They may be getting even more fastidious.  One of my neighbours, about a block from the park, found a bunch of drug paraphernalia including needles, on the sidewalk in front of her house this morning.  Clearly an effort to clean up the campsite.  We need to applaud this effort.



#18933 JimV

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:17 PM

The fact the mayor is A-OK with this should be a big red flag for 85 percent of Victoria.  

The other 15 percent either live in the park or are on city council.


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#18934 On the Level

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 04:12 PM

The fact the mayor is A-OK with this should be a big red flag for 85 percent of Victoria.  

 

I didn't articulate my post above very well but as the paper points out, "Housing First" strategies are deliberately designed to ignore all evidence beyond "housing".  The issue with Housing First is that it is an oversimplification.  Problems cannot be simplified down to poverty and limitations of housing.  Homelessness is a complex problem needing a well rounded solution.

 

While there will be cases where Housing First can help, it is inappropriate for a Council, a Mayor or the Province to adopt "Housing First" blindly.  If it was a successful strategy, we wouldn't have the issues we see today around the former hotels.  Left to continue, this situation will degrade.

 

Housing First is not the panacea that Helps, Issit and UVIC make it out to be.  A difficult conversation with fewer buzzwords is needed.


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#18935 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 04:42 PM

I didn't articulate my post above very well but as the paper points out, "Housing First" strategies are deliberately designed to ignore all evidence beyond "housing".  The issue with Housing First is that it is an oversimplification.  Problems cannot be simplified down to poverty and limitations of housing.  Homelessness is a complex problem needing a well rounded solution.

 

While there will be cases where Housing First can help, it is inappropriate for a Council, a Mayor or the Province to adopt "Housing First" blindly.  If it was a successful strategy, we wouldn't have the issues we see today around the former hotels.  Left to continue, this situation will degrade.

 

Housing First is not the panacea that Helps, Issit and UVIC make it out to be.  A difficult conversation with fewer buzzwords is needed.

 

The best thing I've heard about "Housing First" is that if it is adopted, that if it becomes "Housing Only" - it fails and fails badly.  That is what we're seeing.


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#18936 Midnightly

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 05:27 PM

when the most recent hotels opened up (and even when 844 johnson opened up) they kept talking about wrap around supports for those being housed, yet it seems those supports are simply not used or not provided... and the housing first model ends up just becoming housing only... and then a new battle starts (the SJW's against the neighbourhoods facing a rise in crime and vandalism)

 

i wonder if these supports were indeed provided and they were mandatory (your room is dependent on you speaking with a councilor,seeing medical professionals to help diagnose issues, attending meetings) would we be having these issues that we are having at the hotels currently housing the homeless?


Edited by Midnightly, 01 August 2020 - 05:30 PM.

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#18937 mbjj

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:14 PM

Bathrobe, lol.



#18938 tanker

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:58 PM

when the most recent hotels opened up (and even when 844 johnson opened up) they kept talking about wrap around supports for those being housed, yet it seems those supports are simply not used or not provided... and the housing first model ends up just becoming housing only... and then a new battle starts (the SJW's against the neighbourhoods facing a rise in crime and vandalism)

i wonder if these supports were indeed provided and they were mandatory (your room is dependent on you speaking with a councilor,seeing medical professionals to help diagnose issues, attending meetings) would we be having these issues that we are having at the hotels currently housing the homeless?


We can lock down the whole country for months but we can't force a bunch of addicts to get treatment because it's violate their rights.
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#18939 Midnightly

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:28 PM

We can lock down the whole country for months but we can't force a bunch of addicts to get treatment because it's violate their rights.

 

no forcing... just if you don't attend, you lose your free housing... if you want to keep your housing you attend...  and along with that we go back to enforcing the bylaws on camping, restrict specific parks (there used to be a list of parks people couldn't camp in) and camping only allowed 7pm to 7am... and for those who feel these things are too hard, they are welcome to leave.. i have a feeling apply those things and we'll see a huge drop in campers around the city... and probably a drop in crime too


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#18940 On the Level

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 09:20 PM

Treatment really only works for those ready and want it.  For the rest, there needs to be a more difficult conversation about where they go, how we can support them while also reflecting on how these solutions impact everyone.


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