Jump to content

      



























Photo

Victoria homelessness and street-related issues


  • Please log in to reply
25851 replies to this topic

#18981 rmpeers

rmpeers
  • Member
  • 2,618 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:47 AM

Maybe redirect your focus towards actual solutions (like housing or mental health treatments) rather than complain that the CoV hasn't yet kicked people out of BHP so you can look at flowers and ducks while not having to think about those less fortunate than you. I'm frankly disgusted at the selfish attitudes expressed by most users here,


It doesn't surprise me that someone would think this. After all, the mayor and her surrogates have been hammering this carefully crafted message constantly because their goal is drive a wedge between people specifically to boost their own political support. Its very cynical, and less and less people are buying it thankfully. To anyone who has paid attention, its clear that its not the unhoused that people object to; its rather the violent criminal element that the mayor and council's blunders have allowed to thrive.
  • Nparker, Greg, Daveyboy and 7 others like this

#18982 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 12:09 PM

Maybe redirect your focus towards actual solutions (like housing or mental health treatments) rather than complain that the CoV hasn't yet kicked people out of BHP so you can look at flowers and ducks while not having to think about those less fortunate than you.

 

I believe most on the forum are focused towards actual solutions and part of this is the realization that Housing First is a 20 year old failed policy.  Part of this is to stop whitewashing all of the street population as being simply misunderstood and unfortunate.  As Dr. Bill MacEwan has stressed, a portion of this population is dangerous to themselves and the public in general.

 

We need to stop blindly listening to activists and start taking the advice of real doctors that have real well rounded experience in the field that can propose real solutions.

 

Everyone wants things to get better for the homeless.


  • Nparker, martini, Midnightly and 5 others like this

#18983 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,157 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 12:32 PM

Everyone wants things to get better for the homeless.

 

That's fundamentally the point of this exercise. We need to make things better for people facing homelessness.

 

But when it all comes crumbling down is when violence, criminality, theft, arson, intimidation and mud-slinging are required add-ons for this solution to occur, according to Victoria council and advocates on whom they rely.

 

One theft, assault or senseless act of violence is one too many for our community.


  • martini, pennymurphy2000, A Girl is No one and 1 other like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#18984 jasmineshinga

jasmineshinga
  • Member
  • 332 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 01:14 PM

...don't expect it to be like a park, especially for kids. No picnics and no running around on the lawns (except the one where the fireworks are viewed from - normally).

You are really selling me on this. No junkies, AND kids have to behave themselves? Sign me up!


  • Nparker, lanforod and Victoria Watcher like this

~ Jasmine ~


#18985 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,649 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 01:34 PM

 

Everyone wants things to get better for the homeless.

 

Why would we assume the governments and their political agents want this? Where's the evidence? They've spent huge amounts of public money, they've made effectively zero real progress re: making things better, and they continue to exploit situations to further tangential agendas. We've all been very patient for many years but to my eye the supposed war against homelessness isn't looking any different than the supposed wars against anything else. I won't call it a total fraud quite yet, but it's sure coming close to that.

 

So far the notable outcomes of this longstanding effort have been regularly recurring tent cities, trashed city parks and public spaces, amplified social division and scapegoating (by now the finger has been pointed at literally everyone but the governments and the support services), a shockingly lax new attitude re: firearms and criminal exploitation in general, the heavy acquisition of central properties by various levels of government, and obviously worsening homelessness. What do any of those outcomes (in particular that last one) have to do with making things better for the homeless?

 

As always I challenge people to try a simple mental exercise: if the authorities were willfully aggravating homelessness rather than trying to address it, what sort of outcomes would we expect?*

 

*I'll allow that governments might buy some properties here or there, but all clustered together in concentrated zones that will surely only further the disaster? Or on oddly prominent downtown sites that would otherwise have had obvious usefulness re: addressing the broader housing crunch going forward (but now they've been yanked from the equation)? Come on.


  • Mike K., Nparker and Victoria Watcher like this

#18986 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,649 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 01:47 PM

 

Why would we assume the governments and their political agents want this? Where's the evidence?

 

Isn't it amazing how the authorities are always above criticism? Every single day in the news (or on message boards) we see ordinary citizens being smeared for their supposed selfishness or their ineffectiveness re: improving the situation. So how about the 800-pound gorilla and his budget of hundreds of millions of dollars spread across countless levels of government and myriad departments and agencies? How has he been doing?

 

Woah, take it easy. Are you trying to make that 800-pound gorilla cry? He's doing his best. Cut him some slack. Try pointing the finger at yourself or your neighbours (you know, the people who gave the 800-pound gorilla his budget of hundreds of millions of dollars)

 

They constantly deflect their massive organizational shortcomings onto the shoulders of ordinary people. Like I say, it's no different than a war. Every single action during [insert favourite war here] was counterproductive re: accomplishing anything good for anyone, but the real villains were the ordinary people who dared to mention it. Their observations & criticisms were handcuffing the glorious mission. If not for them, everything would be coming up roses. Give me a break.

 


  • Nparker, Daveyboy, Awaiting Juno and 2 others like this

#18987 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 40,390 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 01:49 PM

 

...Like I say, it's no different than a war...

And just like a war, the first casualty is truth.



#18988 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 52,297 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 01:52 PM

aastra should combine those two posts into an editorial piece and submit to newspapers.


  • Nparker likes this

#18989 pennymurphy2000

pennymurphy2000
  • Member
  • 419 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 02:16 PM

Man, reading this forum is incredibly depressing. Don't you guys have anything better to do than to ***** about people who are battling addiction or struggling to survive? Like really, I live closer to Our Place than literally anyone in Victoria (okay, to be fair, my roommate is a couple feet closer) and I'm going about my life just fine. Maybe redirect your focus towards actual solutions (like housing or mental health treatments) rather than complain that the CoV hasn't yet kicked people out of BHP so you can look at flowers and ducks while not having to think about those less fortunate than you.

I read this forum as it is the only resource for up-to-date news on local urban design, architecture, etc. but I'm frankly disgusted at the selfish attitudes expressed by most users here, 

Neat. Just what this thread needs, and just what Victoria needs, another gaslighter.

 

You are the problem. The Mayor and most of council are the problem. 

 

How wonderful for you that you have been able to walk around downtown without being intimated. As a single mom with children, I do not have the same experiences as you.

 

Get your head out of the sand. People on this board have empathy for the truly homeless. Being empathic doesn't mean you are willing to stay quiet as you watch your city circle the drain.

This city has some real problems.

People are being attacked.

People are being robbed.

People are being threatened.

People are intimidated to go downtown.

Things downtown are not fine.

Pretending or wishing so doesn't make it true.

 

Housing first DOES NOT WORK. Actual supports are needed. The current group of service providers have zero interest in this. 

 

Enforcing the current day camping bylaws would help the situation but the Mayor and Council direct staff to not enforce them. 

 

Many people have brought lots of great ideas forward only to be ignored, dismissed, intimidated or outright threatened while attending a council meeting by the many SJWs that live in Victoria.  


Edited by pennymurphy2000, 04 August 2020 - 02:19 PM.

  • Mike K., LJ, martini and 7 others like this

#18990 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,157 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 04:06 PM

Just to be clear, when I say “everyone,” I mean the average person.
  • Victoria Watcher likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#18991 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 40,390 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 05:25 PM

...Many people have brought lots of great ideas forward only to be ignored, dismissed, intimidated or outright threatened while attending a council meeting by the many SJWs that live in Victoria.  

Sadly, this.


  • martini and Awaiting Juno like this

#18992 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 20,971 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:33 PM

How wonderful for you that you have been able to walk around downtown without being intimated. As a single mom with children, I do not have the same experiences as you.

 

Even the cops don't have the same experience as the poster. One weekend and three violent confrontations with the 'homeless'. Good thing they all have free houses , free food and free drugs.  

 

https://www.timescol...ests-1.24181135


  • martini and pennymurphy2000 like this

#18993 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,649 posts

Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:47 PM

 

...when I say “everyone,” I mean the average person.

 

Is that a backhanded way of excluding the forumers on this board?

 

Listen, I'm sure there are some individuals in the system who actually do care and who do want better results. But it seems like too many people are married to failed methodology, false ideology, faulty metrics, and self-serving infrastructure. Remember all those years ago when we were told everything would be great if we would just give the experts a free hand to pursue their enlightened evidence-based approach? It's been misfiring right out of the gate. They've had the free hand they said they needed, they've been able to establish the de-stigmatized and tolerant environment that they were calling for, and they've had tons of money to play with. And yet tent cities are becoming more common, not less. Circumstances are becoming more extreme, not less. How much longer are we (people on the inside and people on the outside) supposed to wait? It hasn't worked. Time to change course. Why is that such a big deal? Just examine what isn't working and try to innovate. Question the prevailing assumptions.


  • lanforod, Midnightly, rmpeers and 2 others like this

#18994 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,157 posts

Posted 05 August 2020 - 12:48 AM

Oh yeah, we all understand that we’ve been lead down this path under pretenses of scientifically proven or backed policies.

But like you said, the battle lines have been drawn and far too much is at stake to see a pivot or an admission that some policies are making things worse.
  • pennymurphy2000 and Awaiting Juno like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#18995 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 52,297 posts

Posted 05 August 2020 - 05:22 AM

People without homes who have lived in the capital region for a year or more should be given higher priority for housing than those who recently moved here, says Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps.

 

In a motion going to committee of the whole on Thursday, Helps and three city councillors recommend that a one-year residency requirement be added to the list of criteria that’s used when assessing people for housing.

 

https://www.timescol...sing-1.24181120



#18996 GetLisaSomeHelps

GetLisaSomeHelps
  • Member
  • 407 posts
  • LocationSaanich

Posted 05 August 2020 - 07:13 AM

So now people will know they need to camp out for a year before getting that free housing. Short-term pain...


  • Nparker likes this

#18997 A Girl is No one

A Girl is No one
  • Member
  • 2,495 posts

Posted 05 August 2020 - 07:17 AM

And/Or the ones who didn’t know they needed to lie will. Expect the next PIT survey to show everyone in Victoria for a minimum of a year. And still no drop in the numbers.
  • Nparker, grantpalin, pennymurphy2000 and 2 others like this

#18998 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,157 posts

Posted 05 August 2020 - 07:22 AM

We also know there’s no mandate requiring people to substantiate their claims of residency, so it feels like the mayor has posited this motion in an attempt to quell concerns but how effective such a motion will be is not known.
  • pennymurphy2000, Awaiting Juno, A Girl is No one and 1 other like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#18999 GetLisaSomeHelps

GetLisaSomeHelps
  • Member
  • 407 posts
  • LocationSaanich

Posted 05 August 2020 - 07:24 AM

And/Or the ones who didn’t know they needed to lie will. Expect the next PIT survey to show everyone in Victoria for a minimum of a year. And still no drop in the numbers.

 

"This confirms our stance that the homeless in Victoria are from here" - Shockingly, no councillor in the CRD will have heard of data validity & accuracy as it pertains to data integrity.


  • GaryRanson, grantpalin, pennymurphy2000 and 3 others like this

#19000 Awaiting Juno

Awaiting Juno
  • Member
  • 1,507 posts
  • LocationVictoria, BC

Posted 05 August 2020 - 10:49 AM

Can the city, the province and the patchwork quilt of "service providers" please get in one room so that they can coordinate their efforts so that the most people (and of those the most adversely affected) can be helped with the resources available?  Can they agree on a framework to triage people in a way that is objective and fair?  Can they communicate with one another so that resources do not go to waste?  Can they serve their existing population better (ie. set standards for continued occupancy of publicly provided housing) and work to move people through the publicly provided housing so that we are not in a position of having to build ever more units of public housing?  Imagine a hospital system where people are kept in acute care beds long after they have recovered - the same problem exists in our un-housed support system with absolutely no effort to accurately measure what the system is, what the capacity is and how to better "grease the system" so that people are lifted up out of the need for it and are able to provide for themselves in sustainable ways.


  • Nparker, grantpalin, Midnightly and 3 others like this

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users