25931 replies to this topic

[aastra]

The thing is, the city and province are going to make sure you get hundreds of such neighbours whether you like it or not, and they're also going to make sure the situations of those neighbours are as dire and intractable as possible, to maximize the frictions and to justify the service programs.

 

Call me old-fashioned but I still feel like habitual arsonists, shooters, parole jumpers etc. have issues that transcend their housing status. What I'm talking about is a possible alternative method for providing a basic form of supportive housing to people who need it and want it. Methinks the lumping together of such a wide range of individuals & personal circumstances is yet another device by which the authorities aggravate the overall situation and foster resentment and hopelessness.

[Victoria Watcher]

Police patrols have been stepped up around an east Vancouver park where a tent encampment is growing.

 

A statement from Vancouver police says five additional police officers and community safety workers have been assigned to the Strathcona neighbourhood because of safety concerns.

 

https://www.timescol...rols-1.24182488

[spanky123]

The thing is, the city and province are going to make sure you get hundreds of such neighbours whether you like it or not, and they're also going to make sure the situations of those neighbours are as dire and intractable as possible, to maximize the frictions and to justify the service programs.

 

Call me old-fashioned but I still feel like habitual arsonists, shooters, parole jumpers etc. have issues that transcend their housing status. What I'm talking about is a possible alternative method for providing a basic form of supportive housing to people who need it and want it. Methinks the lumping together of such a wide range of individuals & personal circumstances is yet another device by which the authorities aggravate the overall situation and foster resentment and hopelessness.

 

Even the Provincial Minister of Housing has acknowledged that many people living in the "home camps" aren't even homeless and are in fact activists advocating for more housing.

[JimV]

Even the Provincial Minister of Housing has acknowledged that many people living in the "home camps" aren't even homeless and are in fact activists advocating for more housing.

Gee, for some reason the name Chrissy Brett just popped into my mind.  Wierd.

[jrm]

Why not buy an island and put them there for treatment?  And treatment would not be an choice, it would be obligatory.  It would be cheaper than all these motels, feeding them and giving them free drugs. A diabetic does not get free drugs and I find it hard to understand why a drug addict would get free drugs.  All we are doing is enabling them so perhaps it is now time to change the way things are done.  This way is a total failure!

[Dexter]

James island is probably cheaper than a couple of hotels. Lots of room to camp

[Awaiting Juno]

If housing alone isn't the answer, neither is sending them to some kind of leper colony.  For those who no longer have capacity - the state should be stepping in and appointing a trustee to assist people who cannot manage their affairs for themselves.

[Dexter]

The crux is that the majority don’t want to change their situation. And to beat addiction, you need to be your own agent for change. If your don’t want to be clean, then you will never be clean. So the current policy is to give them whatever they want (housing, food, drugs, money) and leave them to their own devices with no requirement for effort on their part. The result is that the general population pays the price through increased property crime and violence. Where is the tipping point between the wants of the addicted and the rights to safety of the larger public?

[Awaiting Juno]

Here's some context: 80% of a person's health spending in their lifetime occurs in their final 2 years of life.  We spend massively for very little gain.  Yet, here, we could make a massive difference and for those who are enabled to end the dysfunction, we could have massive gains that would accrue over decades.  We need to focus on things that enable self-help (training, job search assistance, financial literacy, housing search assistance) and end enabling of self-destruction.  Basic shelter (large room with cots), with access to hygeine and sanitation is what should be provided to those who are unwilling (but capable) of engaging in activities to better themselves.  The laws and bylaws should apply to everyone.

[Dexter]

I’m still in favour of an enforced recovery community. Something with the supports you mention but you aren’t free to do as you like. Cyclical criminals claiming drug addiction as the reason for their behaviour are required to enter this community and finish treatment before release. In some ways we have this already, although they have a low success rate because they rely on voluntary participation

[A Girl is No one]

BHP is still getting worse. I went yesterday. I altered my course to avoid the tenting areas as much as possible. Nevertheless, within a few steps into the park I ran into some weird creepy guy screaming and laughing. A bit further, some guy got out of his tent and casually walked a few steps towards the road (where I was) and urinated facing new. Bathrooms were close by. I told him so. He couldn’t have cared less.
My neighbour told me she had a similar experience but the guy dropped his pants and took a dump.
Yet, according to Our Place, it’s the neighbourhood that is « making up » issues to make the homeless look bad. We don’t need to. They do it themselves. I am still reeling over that disrespectful comment from Mackenzie. Someone should remind him that his job is paid for by the taxpayers, the same people he accuses of ridiculous things. There is plenty of proven Incidents were drug addicts or mentally ill people have caused lots of damage to people or things for no logical reason or gain. He knows that. He’s just aiming at creating division so that people who don’t know any better will hate the neighbours who are just trying to save their park and their safety.
He really should be ashamed of himself. That was totally despicable.

[Victoria Watcher]

grant mckenzie is one of the biggest enablers there is in this city.  and that's saying something where there are many.

 

he does a terrible job and his "clients" are out of control.  he should lose his job for the awful work he's done.

[aastra]

 

My neighbour told me she had a similar experience but the guy dropped his pants and took a dump.

 

Trust me on this, if there was even the remotest possibility of any sort of public health consequence, the righteous and caring authorities would be cracking down like a tyrannical third-world regime.*

 

*a righteous and caring tyrannical third-world regime

[Victoria Watcher]

Here's some context: 80% of a person's health spending in their lifetime occurs in their final 2 years of life.  We spend massively for very little gain.  Yet, here, we could make a massive difference and for those who are enabled to end the dysfunction, we could have massive gains that would accrue over decades.  We need to focus on things that enable self-help (training, job search assistance, financial literacy, housing search assistance) and end enabling of self-destruction.  Basic shelter (large room with cots), with access to hygeine and sanitation is what should be provided to those who are unwilling (but capable) of engaging in activities to better themselves.  The laws and bylaws should apply to everyone.

 

i see no evidence that "more money" leads to lifestyle changes and recovery for addicts. 

 

 

and for the cost of that one hotel in vancouver we could have housed 1000 people in 10 cot facilities spread around the province. 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 August 2020 - 11:43 AM.

[JimV]

2007: Victoria's homeless population estimated at well under 1,000. So we must have solved homelessness because so few arrive here from elsewhere.

 

hom.JPG

I note that the total Victoria count of 743 included 1,064 with self reported mental issues, alcohol or drug addiction.  Presumably some have multiple problems.  In any case, that doesn’t seem to leave much room for the regular folks just down on their luck that the advocates are always assuring us exist.

[JimV]

Basic shelter (large room with cots), with access to hygeine and sanitation is what should be provided to those who are unwilling (but capable) of engaging in activities to better themselves.  The laws and bylaws should apply to everyone.

I’m not sure why we should provide anything (except, perhaps a stern lecture and a bus ticket to somewhere far away) to those who are capable but unwilling.

 

Meanwhile, I was downtown this morning and noticed that the City Hall encampment has spawned a suburb on the traffic island at Pandora and Government.  Two or three tents and the usual trash.  Fits right in with the seagull droppings dripping from the half empty storefronts and sidewalks along Government.

[A Girl is No one]

Some tents at Topaz park again for at least a few days. And several on Pandora.
I want my money that was spent buying those hotels back!!!

Where are the grumpy taxpayers on this by the way. I can’t remember ever hearing them talk about this flagrant disregard for tax payer money.

Edited by A Girl is No one, 08 August 2020 - 02:57 PM.

[Awaiting Juno]

I’m not sure why we should provide anything (except, perhaps a stern lecture and a bus ticket to somewhere far away) to those who are capable but unwilling.

 

Meanwhile, I was downtown this morning and noticed that the City Hall encampment has spawned a suburb on the traffic island at Pandora and Government.  Two or three tents and the usual trash.  Fits right in with the seagull droppings dripping from the half empty storefronts and sidewalks along Government.

 

Here's why shelter is the floor: the court case enables one to pitch a tent in a park at night (which is why the bylaw is 7pm to 7am) when there is not shelter available.  The availability of shelter enables the enforcement of the bylaw.  That is why we should provide that bare minimum.

[spanky123]

Some tents at Topaz park again for at least a few days. And several on Pandora.
I want my money that was spent buying those hotels back!!!

Where are the grumpy taxpayers on this by the way. I can’t remember ever hearing them talk about this flagrant disregard for tax payer money.

 

The Grumpies have so many targets these days to comment on I am sure that it is hard to choose which one!

[Victoria Watcher]

half the rooms at paul's are empty this article says.

 

https://www.timescol...sing-1.24183374

 

otherwise there is little of value in this article.   nothing in here says were are doing anything right.  we are even paying people $100/week to watch others use drugs.  seems counterproductive.