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Victoria homelessness and street-related issues


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#19161 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 09:15 AM

We need to remember that what most of us think as homeless (ie campers) and what the survey counts as homeless are two different things.

 

If you do not have a permanent place to live of your own then the survey considers you homeless. Living with a friend, being in treatment, living in a halfway or transition house, etc, etc are all counted as homeless. Campers represent about 10% (or less) of the 'homeless' counted. This is by design. The count is done at night in the dark so volunteers are not wandering into parks or other unlit areas looking for people in tents to survey.

 

What most people are concerned about are the people moving here and living on the streets and in parks, not those living with their buddies. 

 

If you look at the report, about 150 people were counted as living rough and about 240 people have been here less than a year. It is quite possible then that the majority of the campers are new to Victoria.

 

I would argue that the reason why the PIT count folks refuse to release their data and report the way they do is to hide that fact.

 

it also counts people in jail as homeless.  or at least those in jail that say they have no home to go to upon release.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 August 2020 - 09:19 AM.


#19162 Sparky

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 03:10 PM

For those of you who are just coming to grips with why Victoria has become a haven for the people with no visible means of support ....who hail from all corners of our great country, this article should remind you.

 

....from Toronto

 

...a half decade ago

 

https://toronto.city...nt-for-camping/



#19163 mbjj

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 03:32 PM

I'd like to be idly rich too.



#19164 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 03:36 PM

I have to admit the last two paragraphs kind of make that worth reading.
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#19165 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 05:59 AM

i have a lot of issues with this article.

 

 

 

Somewhere between the two extremes — those who want to hug all the messed-up people on the street, and those who would happily hose them into the Inner Harbour — stands Sue McMurter.

 

 

 

 

that's the first one.  i've never met anyone that wants to "hose the homeless into the inner harbour".  i've never met anyone that see homeless as less than people.

 

and reading all through the article she has lots of blame for others even though it seems she was smart and able to take jobs.  not sure if her anxiety was caused by the drugs and alcohol.  other parts do not quite add up like not being able to get welfare after after losing a job.  there might have been a small waiting period but that's the idea.  getting another job is supposed to be your first response to being out of money.

 

it seems nearly her entire life she's been relying on government support of some type and now of course she has a government job.

 

and i'm not so sure about this "china white" epidemic that was killing men in armani suits.

 

“It was not just the Downtown Eastside. The ugliness was absolutely everywhere, and there was a gang turf war exploding.”

 

 

______

“My whole peer group was going downhill with all the heroin that’s around,” she said. She found herself alone in an East Van slum, no job, no school, nothing. “I felt completely abandoned by the people who were supposed to be taking care of me.”

 

 

believe it or not heroin and ugliness was not "everywhere".  at least it was nowhere near the places friends and workplaces i frequented.

 

https://www.timescol...tive-1.24187034


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 August 2020 - 06:03 AM.


#19166 Rob Randall

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:26 AM

i've never met anyone that wants to "hose the homeless into the inner harbour".  i've never met anyone that see homeless as less than people.

 

I have heard people say things like the homeless should be loaded on a barge and taken out to sea. They're joking but...kinda not, really.

 

believe it or not heroin and ugliness was not "everywhere".  at least it was nowhere near the places friends and workplaces i frequented.

 

 

Barb McClintock wrote an article in 1973 about the local heroin scene. It was much more popular a drug than cocaine at the time and was bought in smoky beer parlour washroom and shot up in dingy hotel room and cheap, rented, communal houses and the retail price was $600,000 a kilogram.

 

But by the late 80s I knew a lot of Victorians doing cocaine recreationally but I wasn't aware of anyone doing heroin.



#19167 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:38 AM

the article gave super short shrift to the reason she left home at 14.  that might have been worth exploring more.

 

i don't expect someone that leaves home at 14 to do particularly well but she seemed to especially well when she was living in the group home.

 

she said she left the group home because she was deemed to be quite independent and likely to do well on her own.  but the article does not really explain well why she did not do so well.  was it money-management problems?

 

having said that she was "clean" by 24 and back towards a normal life.  i knew plenty of 24 year olds that had not hit that point yet.  some still haven't and now they are in their 40's.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 August 2020 - 07:43 AM.


#19168 A Girl is No one

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 08:31 AM

i have a lot of issues with this article.





that's the first one. i've never met anyone that wants to "hose the homeless into the inner harbour". i've never met anyone that see homeless as less than people.

and reading all through the article she has lots of blame for others even though it seems she was smart and able to take jobs. not sure if her anxiety was caused by the drugs and alcohol. other parts do not quite add up like not being able to get welfare after after losing a job. there might have been a small waiting period but that's the idea. getting another job is supposed to be your first response to being out of money.

it seems nearly her entire life she's been relying on government support of some type and now of course she has a government job.

and i'm not so sure about this "china white" epidemic that was killing men in armani suits.


believe it or not heroin and ugliness was not "everywhere". at least it was nowhere near the places friends and workplaces i frequented.


https://www.timescol...tive-1.24187034

I wonder if our dear poverty dealers will listen to this lady’s advice, she did after all manage to get out of the homelessness cycle:

« The little lost lamb talk has to go away,” she says. Social justice warriors can’t excuse anti-social behaviour. “You can be compassionate and have boundaries at the same time. You can take care of people without letting them burn down your house.”
But you do need to take care of people, which means that it’s not good enough to offer harm-reduction strategies that aren’t accompanied by treatment. “Sure it gives them clean supplies, but where’s the incentive to stop?” So, yes, those youth-treatment beds are desperately needed. So are treatment beds in general. People in need matter, even when made to feel that they don’t.« 

Also note how much she moved while she was homeless. Maybe Coolaid should take notice.

And finally, note that she got better after she left the downtown east side and its concentration of social ills. It allowed her to see that life can be different.

Those are all things we have been advocating for and yet, fall on deaf ears (usually accompanied by accusations of hatred). I hope someone listens now.
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#19169 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 08:42 AM

Until the Government moves to a results based system we will never see a change. Way too many people in this town are making a great living right now keeping the homeless and addicted exactly where they are.  


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#19170 rmpeers

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 09:42 AM

I wonder if our dear poverty dealers will listen to this lady’s advice, she did after all manage to get out of the homelessness cycle:

« The little lost lamb talk has to go away,” she says. Social justice warriors can’t excuse anti-social behaviour. “You can be compassionate and have boundaries at the same time. You can take care of people without letting them burn down your house.”
But you do need to take care of people, which means that it’s not good enough to offer harm-reduction strategies that aren’t accompanied by treatment. “Sure it gives them clean supplies, but where’s the incentive to stop?” So, yes, those youth-treatment beds are desperately needed. So are treatment beds in general. People in need matter, even when made to feel that they don’t.«

Also note how much she moved while she was homeless. Maybe Coolaid should take notice.

And finally, note that she got better after she left the downtown east side and its concentration of social ills. It allowed her to see that life can be different.

Those are all things we have been advocating for and yet, fall on deaf ears (usually accompanied by accusations of hatred). I hope someone listens now.



"And finally, note that she got better after she left the downtown east side and its concentration of social ills. It allowed her to see that life can be different."

This is the point. Cramming people into downtown Victoria helps no one. It's not compassion.
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#19171 A Girl is No one

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:55 PM

Finally someone speaks up about the mess that Victoria has become. Sadly, she is a landscaper who was just pricked by a used discarded needle. She is awaiting test results. Hoping she is ok.

« I’ve never seen Victoria like this,” she said. “I’ve never seen so much filth, so much needles, so much feces.”
“It’s like it’s just become normal, everyday scenery in Victoria, and it shouldn’t be.”« 

She found 19 used needles in 3 days.

Helps says the city is launching a 4-person team dressed in hazmat suits (sounds like!) to pick up feces, needles, socks (often used as toilet paper) and garbage. Right. That will fix downtown.

https://news.google....l=CA&ceid=CA:en
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#19172 Sparky

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 09:02 PM

^ That’s the thing.....leadership is not about hiring staff to pick up the needles and the turds....leadership is about building communities where you don’t have to.
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#19173 Midnightly

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 10:45 PM


Helps says the city is launching a 4-person team dressed in hazmat suits (sounds like!) to pick up feces, needles, socks (often used as toilet paper) and garbage. Right. That will fix downtown.

https://news.google....l=CA&ceid=CA:en

 

to me that seems more accepting the problem and throwing more money at it.. instead of trying to deal with the real issue and tackle the root of the problem...


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#19174 martini

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Posted 16 August 2020 - 04:42 AM

^ That’s the thing.....leadership is not about hiring staff to pick up the needles and the turds....leadership is about building communities where you don’t have to.

Bingo! 🔥
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#19175 JimV

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 07:08 AM

Another little vignette from James Bay.  On Sunday morning I was walking downtown near the Leg.  A guy who looked like a street person was coming the other way carrying a nice bicycle on his back.  He wasn’t riding it because the front wheel was locked to the frame.  He must have lost his key.  Or maybe it had been abandoned and he was doing a public service by taking it to the park for recycling.

 

Later I passed another one sitting on the steps near Thrifty’s.  His backpack was open and I noticed it contained an orbital sander.  Always handy to carry an orbital sander around, just in case.

 

There might be perfectly innocent explanations for these incidents.  You be the judge.


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#19176 Barrrister

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 08:32 AM

JimV: I hope you reported the bicycle to the police. The police are likely to be stretched too thin to do much but that was someone hard earned dollars being robbed.


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#19177 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 08:49 AM

Please phone it in! Calls for service do get logged and it will show how much the police are needed in Victoria. Now more than ever. 


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#19178 JimV

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 11:38 AM

Please phone it in! Calls for service do get logged and it will show how much the police are needed in Victoria. Now more than ever. 

I‘ve reported several thefts of my own property.  In the observations I posted I have no actual evidence that a crime was committed and I did not witness a theft in progress, so there’s not much to report.  If the bike and the sander were indeed stolen then I expect the owners would have filed a report.



#19179 martini

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 04:01 PM

Please phone it in! Calls for service do get logged and it will show how much the police are needed in Victoria. Now more than ever.

This! So much this! Report any suspicious person/activity. It generates possible problem areas needing more patrols. One of the biggest points by Vic PD when I was a Blockwatch Captain.
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#19180 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 07:29 AM

A guy who looked like a street person was coming the other way carrying a nice bicycle on his back.  He wasn’t riding it because the front wheel was locked to the frame.  

 

This is exactly the kind of event that needs to be called in.

Every. Single. Time. 

Please call the non emergency line. 


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