25967 replies to this topic

[Midnightly]

lets not forget.. before the courthouse lawns tent city fiasco.. Helps tried very hard to set up a tent city at topaz park

[Cassidy]

^I guess you don't understand the chain of law.  

Yeah ... I guess not.

 

BTW, are you sure "chain of law" is an actual thing ... or did you just make it up?

 

(be sure to do a bit of research before you answer!)

[Sparky]

Gently fellas. Great topic. Tone is everything. I tend to lean towards Cassidy's line of thinking. The courthouse lawn camp was a setup in my opinion. 

 

The original little old lady that was the first to plant a tent was a shill. She apparently went on record as much on some newscast where she stated that she had an arrangement with the local sheriff. (by that I mean the sheriff that runs the security at the law courts) She was told by him in the very early days that if anyone should come along and ask her to leave (by that I mean police or bylaw officers) that she would direct that discussion towards the sheriff. 

 

Now even if that were the case and the fix was in, the behaviour portrayed by the subsequent free love crowd was appalling, and in my mind any self respecting peace officer would have pulled out a few goodies out of his bag of tricks (read other statutes instead of the law that says it is your god given right to have a nice night's sleep at every one else's expense) and grabbed these lawn warriors every time they so much as layed down a piece of litter. 

 

Then after a serious scrubbing of their prior activities down at the station hall, a decision could could have been made wether or not to drop them off back at the court house...... only this time at the porte cochere in order to receive a nudge from the judge. 

 

In simple terms if the desire was there to control that thing....the tools were readily available. In this case I think what we saw was that the authorities having jurisdiction simply let go of the reigns.....in order to fulfill a personal agenda.....just like they did with the pot shops.

[Nparker]

Although this story doesn't take place in Victoria, it exemplifies an attitude I have seen expressed among members of the local homeless "community" on more than one occasion.

...Fifty-two-year-old Ward Ferguson has been living in the [Sugar Mountain] camp for a few months, and said he values the sense of community among the approximately 50 people living there...Ferguson has been homeless for about a year, and says his only other choices for housing are finding a bachelor apartment or living with the strict rules of an SRO..."Here I can have a guest, I can cook, I can do what I want to do."...

http://www.cbc.ca/ne....4396397?cmp=rss

Guess what Mr. Ferguson, we all have to live within the rules of society, even more so when your entire support system is based on the largesse of that society. I bet many people would like to be free to do whatever they want, whenever they want, but that's anarchy, not civilization.

[rmpeers]

Gently fellas. Great topic. Tone is everything. I tend to lean towards Cassidy's line of thinking. The courthouse lawn camp was a setup in my opinion.

The original little old lady that was the first to plant a tent was a shill. She apparently went on record as much on some newscast where she stated that she had an arrangement with the local sheriff. (by that I mean the sheriff that runs the security at the law courts) She was told by him in the very early days that if anyone should come along and ask her to leave (by that I mean police or bylaw officers) that she would direct that discussion towards the sheriff.

Now even if that were the case and the fix was in, the behaviour portrayed by the subsequent free love crowd was appalling, and in my mind any self respecting peace officer would have pulled out a few goodies out of his bag of tricks (read other statutes instead of the law that says it is your god given right to have a nice night's sleep at every one else's expense) and grabbed these lawn warriors every time they so much as layed down a piece of litter.

Then after a serious scrubbing of their prior activities down at the station hall, a decision could could have been made wether or not to drop them off back at the court house...... only this time at the porte cochere in order to receive a nudge from the judge.

In simple terms if the desire was there to control that thing....the tools were readily available. In this case I think what we saw was that the authorities having jurisdiction simply let go of the reigns.....in order to fulfill a personal agenda.....just like they did with the pot shops.

Amd I am not a lawyer but am pretty sure that being on provincial didn't mean that they should habe been allowed to set up a drug lab, sell drugs to minors, and commit (allegedly) sexual and other assaults. All that good stuff was allowed to go on (according to local gossip) because of mumicipal direction to the police to take a hands off approach. At least thats what some people were saying at the time. Allegedly.

[Cassidy]

The courthouse lawn camp was a setup in my opinion. 

A local pundit informed me during the actual tent city run that the entire debacle was a scam initially perpetrated by the Sheriffs at the courthouse as a backhanded method to press their case for ... wait for it ... more Sheriffs at the courthouse.

 

It didn't quite work out as planned, and the sheriffs quickly retreated from the entire story - never to be heard from again.

 

That's the pundits tale as was told to me.

If you believe the old nugget "follow the money" ... there is a certain logic to the tale.

[Sparky]

^ it wouldn't surprise me if a judge and a sheriff dreamed this up over a glass of brandy.

[todd]

This is absolute bollocks.

 

She could do lots of things ... the point you seem to be missing is that SHE CHOSE TO DO NOTHING AT ALL.

 

The courthouse lawn is in the City of Victoria ... Helps is the mayor of the City of Victoria ... and she CHOSE to do nothing.

Conceptually, she never even explored taking her case to court in order to test whether the story that nobody could do anything because they were on provincial land even held water, Helps didn't even try.

In this kind of situation, you TEST the concept in court ... you don't sit back and say "nope, I can't do anything about that" ... which is exactly what Helps did.

Why not blame Christy Clark? Provincial land Christy had just as much power or more?

[Cassidy]

Why not blame Christy Clark? Provincial land Christy had just as much power or more?

I would first need to be convinced that she even had a clue that there was a tent city on the courthouse lawn.

Based on her imperious demeanor, and lack of any personal interest in Victoria ... I seriously doubt she'd ever even heard of our tent city.

 

Unfortunately, that excuse doesn't exist for Helps, who woke up every day knowing all about every element of the tent city disaster ... and still did nothing except repeat over and over again that it had nothing to do with her in her capacity as mayor of the City of Victoria.

 

Perhaps Helps, in her capacity as mayor, and rather than don nothing (which is what she did) Helps should have undertaken direct contact with Clark ... and together they may have succeeded in accomplishing something?

 

I'm not stating in post after post that Helps had a guaranteed solution to this issue ... I'm only pointing out that Helps didn't even try to make the effort which residents expect of their elected officials - which is not only inexcusable, but also remains disappointing from a mayor ... any mayor.

Edited by Cassidy, 10 November 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[A Girl is No one]

I would first need to be convinced that she even had a clue that there was a tent city on the courthouse lawn.
Based on her imperious demeanor, and lack of any personal interest in Victoria ... I seriously doubt she'd ever even heard of our tent city.

Unfortunately, that excuse doesn't exist for Helps, who woke up every day knowing all about every element of the tent city disaster ... and still did nothing except repeat over and over again that it had nothing to do with her in her capacity as mayor of the City of Victoria.

Perhaps Helps, in her capacity as mayor, and rather than don nothing (which is what she did) Helps should have undertaken direct contact with Clark ... and together they may have succeeded in accomplishing something?

I'm not stating in post after post that Helps had a guaranteed solution to this issue ... I'm only pointing out that Helps didn't even try to make the effort which residents expect of their elected officials - which is not only inexcusable, but also remains disappointing from a mayor ... any mayor.

And strangely, Carole James always seems to get off the hook on this. She was the MLA for the neighbourhood, and part of the opposition. Why not attacknthe libs for their lack of support for mental health and housing etc... despite having met with many local residents who actually voted for her, she refused to help and instead wrote a letter in support of tent city. No one questioned her on her flagrant conflict of interest with the poverty industry (her son and daughter in law work for Our Place - one of their arms lengths).

In my opinion, she was the most guilty party in the whole affair and caused the real democracy fail. Helps was very close second.

[Nparker]

And strangely, Carole James always seems to get off the hook on this. She was the MLA for the neighbourhood, and part of the opposition...

She never once responded to any of my numerous messages regarding tent city. I responded by not voting for her in last May's election.

[A Girl is No one]

She never once responded to any of my numerous messages regarding tent city. I responded by not voting for her in last May's election.

I, and many of my neighbours did manage to meet with her... nothing... just a brick wall.. everything WILL be fine...even if it isn’t we will say it is so don’t worry... tsk tsk shameful! And no, I didn’t vote for her either this time around.. still wondering who did? With this kind of representation...

[phx]

Like Adam Stirling posited last week on CFAX, the entire universe knows we have a housing issue in this city.

 

Victoria has a drug problem.  The housing issue is minor in comparison.

[Nparker]

.. I didn’t vote for her either this time around.. still wondering who did?...

Don't forget, this is essentially the same electorate that gave Ben Isitt the largest number of votes of anyone on the CoV ballot in 2014.    Looking at the world through SJW glasses is their specialty.

[Love the rock]

Why not blame Christy Clark? Provincial land Christy had just as much power or more?

My personal belief is Helps really thought it was a good idea when it first came up .
She tried to set it up in Topaz park first .
She liked the idea .
I think it was poor judgment on her part .
When the outcome wasn't what she expected on so many levels Help threw up her hands .
Stating it wasn't her fault or responsibility.
Helps continually does not think things through.
Sleep in your cars ,take in a homeless person .
I have no doubt she thought a tent city was a all great solution until surprise it wasn't.



.

Edited by Love the rock, 10 November 2017 - 09:28 PM.

[A Girl is No one]

My personal belief is Helps really thought it was a good idea when it first came up .
She tried to set it up in Topaz park first .
She liked the idea .
I think it was poor judgment on her part .
When the outcome wasn't what she expected on so many levels Help threw up her hands .
Stating it wasn't her fault or responsibility.
Helps continually does not think things through.
Sleep in your cars ,take in a homeless person .
I have no doubt she thought a tent city was a all great solution until surprise it wasn't.



.

´
I agree with you 100%.

[Mike K.]

And she awarded the tent city folks, do not forget that.

[tjv]

^sorry Mike, what do you mean by that, what were they awarded?

[VicHockeyFan]

^sorry Mike, what do you mean by that, what were they awarded?

 

Helps gave them some type of award for their efforts.  

 

http://www.victoria....nday-night.html

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 11 November 2017 - 08:08 AM.

[A Girl is No one]

And let’s not forget that after Topaz park fought back and won Helps publicly stated that Victoria would get a tent city. She was intent on that....