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Victoria homelessness issues


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#16421 DustMagnet

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 10:12 AM

^ Victoria Watcher may have forgotten the sarcastic font....



#16422 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 11:01 AM

i meant indoors.

#16423 DustMagnet

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 01:35 PM

Oh, so homeless people aren't smoking in stores, bars, restaurants, planes, etc.

 

Indoor smoking was handled differently - it's not just about the smoker, but it comes down on the heads of the indoor property managers if they allow it, and management does have the right to refuse service.  I don't think the city is going to refuse sidewalk service.

 

So if there was a bylaw against long-term camping in parks...  well we know that management doesn't just kick people out of parks.


Edited by DustMagnet, 24 May 2019 - 01:39 PM.


#16424 tjv

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:24 PM

I think there are very few people who are sent to jail for parking violations. But we still issue tickets for illegal parking. And that is enough to stop many (but not all) people from parking illegally. I imagine if we entirely stopped issuing parking tickets, the number of people who park illegally would rise dramatically. 

 

It seems reasonable to assume the same with other bylaws. If bylaws are enforced, even if the enforcement is not 100% effective and lacks the ability to severely (and unreasonably) punish minor violations, it will still stop many (but not all) people from breaking the bylaw. And, as is readily observable in downtown Victoria, if you intentionally stop enforcing bylaws, the number of people who break those bylaws rises dramatically.

 

An organized society has rules, and enforces those rules. The enforcement does not have to be draconian, or perfect. Most people will comply with rules that are enforced. With absolutely no enforcement however, a rule effectively ceases to be seen as a rule and few people feel compelled to comply.

I am not disagreeing at all what you are saying, nor am I disagreeing with this sidewalk law, but we are talking about trying to enforce laws against people who think there are no laws.  Tent city anyone?

 

look at the smoking bylaw. almost perfect compliance with little ticket-writing necessary.

I remember when the bylaws were introduced by the CRD in the 90s.  Back then I smoked and many places I frequented simply told CRD bylaw inspectors to take a hike, some even lit a smoke right in front of them.  Only when WorksafeBC came up with their rules did everyone start to abide.



#16425 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:33 PM

I am not disagreeing at all what you are saying, nor am I disagreeing with this sidewalk law, but we are talking about trying to enforce laws against people who think there are no laws.  Tent city anyone?

 

any place that refused tent cities did not get them or cleared them out.  


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#16426 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 08:49 AM

https://www.timescol...site-1.23836038

 

Captain Hypocrite strikes again. 



#16427 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 09:51 AM

That's assuming we're going to fill up our jails with homeless people who can't or won't pay bylaw infraction fines.  Homeless folks get a lot of slack when it comes to law enforcement - does it really seem likely to you that the tipping point is that they don't pay a fine?

 

I'm not talking theoretical, I mean what do they practically have to lose?  Gonna take their bike, or shopping card in lieu?

 

There's a lot of commentary here about all the Bad Things that can happen to you if you don't pay your fines, but these things are leverage against the average citizen, not the downtrodden and certainly not the elite.

 

What if as a result of violating the bylaw, you were transported to outside the area where the bylaw is in force?  Being forced to lose "their post" in a busy area of town is costly, as they then would have to move back to it and lose time and potentially lose the space to some other person.  No fines, no taking away of property, merely an inconvenience of time - which is likely the only resource many of these people may have.



#16428 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:04 AM

that sounds like kidnapping. what’s a justification for transporting someone without their consent if they are not arrested?
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#16429 Rob Randall

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:12 AM

^Talk about a slippery slope.

 

Next time one of those pesky Tesla drivers overstays the 1 hour parking limit on Oak Bay Avenue let's relocate him to Langford and teach him a lesson.


Edited by Rob Randall, 30 May 2019 - 10:16 AM.

"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

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#16430 DustMagnet

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:50 AM

^ Now why do you gotta be cruel?



#16431 Rob Randall

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 11:05 AM

^Sorry, I let me emotions get ahead of me.


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#16432 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 11:13 AM

Never thought I'd ever see that happen on this board.


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#16433 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 08:20 AM

So the laws just shouldn't apply to the homeless?  You really don't have to worry about the Tesla owner paying a fine, they will.  The homeless person on the other hand could likely careless.  Further, other methods of enforcement are likely to be even more punitive and costly.  



#16434 Rob Randall

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:25 AM

So the laws just shouldn't apply to the homeless?  You really don't have to worry about the Tesla owner paying a fine, they will.  The homeless person on the other hand could likely careless.  Further, other methods of enforcement are likely to be even more punitive and costly.  

 

Do you want to trigger a multi-million dollar Supreme Court challenge? Because that's how you end up with a multi-million dollar Supreme Court challenge.


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#16435 Rob Randall

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:42 PM

Los Angeles officials are bracing for the release of a report that’s likely to show little or no progress in reining in homelessness, despite the $619 million they spent last year to grapple with the crisis.

The gloomy prognosis on one of Southern California’s top political issues emerged during two recent briefings on homelessness and the 2019 point-in-time count, the results of which are due to be released May 31.

 

 

https://www.latimes....0511-story.html


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#16436 LJ

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:02 PM

^So that shows you can't spend your way out of the problem, why do we keep trying.

 

Where did all these homeless people come from? Where were they 30 years ago? What's changed to make homelessness so prevalent?

 

The only thing I have seen change is the progressives continued demand to give people more free shite.

 

Are these people homeless or workless?

 

If they are homeless and working steady, I agree they need a place to live. It might be with two or three other people and it might be a mattress on the floor, but there will be bathroom and kitchen and they will be required to keep it clean.

 

If they are workless then I don't care so much. They are either making themselves unemployable or they don't want to work.

 

For those that have mental health issues they should be put in care for their own safety and the safety of those around them.

 

For people who have drug issues they should be put into rehab and if they don't want to go - that's the end of their benefits.

 

We should not be enabling drug use or normalizing it.


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#16437 Shelby

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 01:00 PM

^So that shows you can't spend your way out of the problem, why do we keep trying.
 
Where did all these homeless people come from? Where were they 30 years ago? What's changed to make homelessness so prevalent?
 
The only thing I have seen change is the progressives continued demand to give people more free shite.
 
Are these people homeless or workless?
 
If they are homeless and working steady, I agree they need a place to live. It might be with two or three other people and it might be a mattress on the floor, but there will be bathroom and kitchen and they will be required to keep it clean.
 
If they are workless then I don't care so much. They are either making themselves unemployable or they don't want to work.
 
For those that have mental health issues they should be put in care for their own safety and the safety of those around them.
 
For people who have drug issues they should be put into rehab and if they don't want to go - that's the end of their benefits.
 
We should not be enabling drug use or normalizing it.


Field of Dreams...Build it, they will come. I dont remember before Our Place, was it always this bad on Pandora?

#16438 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 01:09 PM

No it wasn't. Way back in the day, the churches in town ran the soup kitchens. There was a few prominent homeless in the downtown core. They tended to be on their own. For the most part, they were respectful and certainly didn't go out of their way looking for trouble. I don't remember any encounters with aggressive panhandler types. I grew up here and would often take the bus into town with friends for cheap movie Tuesdays. We never felt unsafe. Now as an adult I don't go to movies downtown, preferring to go to Silvercity or Landmark theatre at University Heights. I would never let my young teen go downtown by themselves. 


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#16439 FawltyVic

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 10:32 PM

Field of Dreams...Build it, they will come. I dont remember before Our Place, was it always this bad on Pandora?

No, it wasn't. I've been dealing with street people since the mid 90's and the only differences between then and now is the level of aggression and the numbers. Seven times out of ten I'll be told where to go or threatened with violence when asking them politely not to break the law or occupy someone else's property. And what's made them brave partly is the lack of enforcing the law. Add into the mix how they've been told over the last 5 years from special interest groups and liberals (the new, not the old) the situation they find themselves in is not their fault be it drugs or alcohol.

 

Try to remember a decade or more ago if you saw junkies shooting up in broad daylight on a public sidewalk, or block the doors to businesses, or have everything from their cart dumped out and blocking a public sidewalk as they sit there and sort through it. See if you can recall the last time cops walked by street people with open alcohol downtown and ignored it like they do now.

 

Victoria is a virus that is infecting other municipalities. When one community fails to take action (thanks Helps), the fall out spreads. Places like Langford and Sooke has seen an increase in street people. And who'd think I'd see street people and panhandlers down Beacon Avenue in Sidney By the Sea.

 

Sorry, I wanted to keep this post short but it's been a sore subject lately. I'll go into town and ask myself "why do I keep coming here" after watching the latest antics from the downtown locals. A good place to get an eyeful is to hang out on lower Pandora across from Centennial Square, where the same people congregate all day every day (after trying so hard to find jobs you know), and watch them yell, drink, scream, commit assaults. Observe the tourists as they walk on by and turn their attention to the spectacle like people visiting a zoo would. I'm shocked tourism hasn't plummeted.


Edited by FawltyVic, 10 June 2019 - 10:42 PM.

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#16440 pennymurphy2000

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 06:37 AM

Citing risks to its future residents and employees from a neighbouring supportive-housing complex, Berwick Retirement Communities has cancelled a $52-million seniors-residence project in Parksville.  The project meant 150 jobs, tax revenue and development cost charges of more than $2.5 million

https://www.timescol...risk-1.23851496



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