1037 replies to this topic

[davidN]

So in the end, the Bayview development will just be an extension of the lifeless Songhees albeit with taller residential buildings.

Blame the City. They are the one driving the development direction there.  Cant' be too imaginative unless one wants to grow vegetables inside a bike path that leads to a politically correct statue

[Victoria Watcher]

the city can of course just say no. stay with the plan formerly approved.

[davidN]

the city can of course just say no. stay with the plan formerly approved.

Absolutely they can. The thing is tho, that from my conversations with the Bayview people, it is the City that has force fed them the change guidelines. So years and years and  hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars later the City is getting its way. 

[Mike K.]

Looking over the plans I have to say that this is a much improved concept when compared to the 2008 version. The 2008 version was predicated upon development trends from the early 2000s. The current plan is a reflection of current market trends, values and actual demands. So there's two decades of progress here, when you really step back and look at what was originally proposed and what's on the table now.

 

The high street concept along Esquimalt Road with four towers makes a lot of sense, and what's interesting is the new plan calls for not one but two hotel properties. Four condo towers will now emerge, two between the hotels, and two east of the rental towers above the roundhouse. 106,000 square feet of retail throughout the district is a lot.

 

The initial plan with the rail cars was a little hokey and I'm glad to see that concept never materialized. It had a look of a highway stop-over or a tourist attraction.

 

One thing I took note of is they cite their 1,000-units of rentals as satisfying 30% of rental demand in the urban core through 2030. I don't think they actually sourced the correct volume of current and planned rental inventory if they think only 3,000-units will be absorbed over the next ten years.

[songheesguy]

Looks good, but i have zero faith in this group.

I couldn't agree with you more. They have came out with so many different plans, prices, launches but don't pull the trigger. I had high hopes at one point but not anymore. I just wish someone else would buy this development with a clear vision.

[davidN]

I couldn't agree with you more. They have came out with so many different plans, prices, launches but don't pull the trigger. I had high hopes at one point but not anymore. I just wish someone else would buy this development with a clear vision.

Had heard that they were close to a deal with a high powered and experienced group to steer this ship on behalf of the Bayview group but the deal fell through just before Christmas. Seems everything falls through with this group. I agree with you - they should step into the background and let some experienced people take the helm.

[Citified.ca]

A site plan of the Roundhouse site, showing the placement of four towers between the 'high street' and Esquimalt Road at top-left, two condominium to their right, a hotel tower below the circular turnstile, two condominiums to the left and an additional hotel tower further left, below the left-most residential tower along the high street.

 

A visual representation of the new 'housing high street' at the Roundhouse component of Bayview Place in Vic West. The view in the image is to the west from the historic railroad roundhouse, with several highrise rental towers to the right with frontages onto the high street (pictured) and Esquimalt Road.

 

Vic West's Roundhouse project re-envisioned with 11 towers of rentals, hotels and condos

https://victoria.cit...-bayview-place/

[Jackerbie]

Absolutely they can. The thing is tho, that from my conversations with the Bayview people, it is the City that has force fed them the change guidelines. So years and years and  hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars later the City is getting its way. 

 

The City is asking the developer to work with the Inclusionary Housing and Community Amenity Policy in exchange for the big jump in density. They're going from an approved 800,000 SF to around 2,378,000 SF.

 

Looking at the figures provided:

• + 7,000 SF retail
• + 200,000 SF hospitality (i.e. hotel)
• + 617,000 SF market residential (i.e. condos)
• + 595,000 SF market rentals
• + 148,000 SF non-market rentals (i.e. inclusionary housing units)
• + 6,000 SF public amenity (unsure what is proposed, but it's an indoor amenity)

Yes, the City is getting more goodies, but the developer isn't exactly going home hungry either.

[Mike K.]

Ah, those are the jumps in square footage?

[Jackerbie]

Ah, those are the jumps in square footage?

 

That's my read of it. The pie chart on the right of page 33 (which was posted here) is the complete SF, and the bar graph is only the additional SF proposed, it looks like.

[Mike K.]

Very good, right.

 

Yeah, I think this is a good move. It's far more comprehensive and will be the hub that's needed in that part of town.

 

Save-Ons is at capacity. Vic West needs another grocery store.

[Kapten Kapsell]

Very good, right.

 

Yeah, I think this is a good move. It's far more comprehensive and will be the hub that's needed in that part of town.

 

Save-Ons is at capacity. Vic West needs another grocery store.

I know it's in Esquimalt, but I wonder how the Red Barn on Esquimalt Road is doing and if it's succeeding in drawing patronage from that community and Vic West?   One of my friends (an Esquimalt resident) has opted to continue patronizing Country Grocer as he felt that the Red Barn's prices were too high ...

[Mike K.]

Save Ons is inundated by walk-in traffic, too. Consider that in recent years you've had Encore complete, two phases at the Railyards, about 50-units at Dockside, and more families are moving into SFDs in the immediate area. With the next phase of Dockside around the corner and the final phase at the Railyards things are going to get very, very busy.

[m3m]

I'm really excited about these changes. While others seem to have little faith about this project ever happening, I've always been a big believer in Mariash.  He's always been somewhat of a perfectionist and he lives in Bayview, so I can understand why this project has been delayed.  It has to perfectly fit his vision and I think previous iterations may have been compromises.  He has to look at this development from the windows of the penthouse daily.  Why compromise? This version may still be a compromise - who knows. 

 

I also speculate that Mariash wasn't all that big a fan of the way Bosa handled Encore and Promontory and that has led to some delays and tweaks to the plan so that he can develop the lands himself. I certainly hope that at least one of the buildings in the roundhouse development are built to the same standards as Bayview One. 

[MarkoJ]

I'm really excited about these changes. While others seem to have little faith about this project ever happening, I've always been a big believer in Mariash.  He's always been somewhat of a perfectionist and he lives in Bayview, so I can understand why this project has been delayed.  It has to perfectly fit his vision and I think previous iterations may have been compromises.  He has to look at this development from the windows of the penthouse daily.  Why compromise? This version may still be a compromise - who knows. 

 

I also speculate that Mariash wasn't all that big a fan of the way Bosa handled Encore and Promontory and that has led to some delays and tweaks to the plan so that he can develop the lands himself. I certainly hope that at least one of the buildings in the roundhouse development are built to the same standards as Bayview One. 

 

Problem is Bayview One never sold well and still doesn't compared to per square foot prices at Promontory and Encore. 

 

It's great that Bayview One is top notch in terms of quality but the market hasn't shown to be willing to pay for top notch quality. I think if you want to have a successful product in terms of sales it needs to be something along the lines of Promontory with a product mix of studios, one beds, small two beds, etc.

[Kapten Kapsell]

Problem is Bayview One never sold well and still doesn't compared to per square foot prices at Promontory and Encore. 

 

It's great that Bayview One is top notch in terms of quality but the market hasn't shown to be willing to pay for top notch quality. I think if you want to have a successful product in terms of sales it needs to be something along the lines of Promontory with a product mix of studios, one beds, small two beds, etc.

Marko, I definitely remember thinking that Bayview One wasn't the right 'product' for the market at the time, but I wonder if part of the challenge at Bayview was the timing, i.e. buyers here (and at the Falls) just opted to forfeit their deposits during the 200720088 financial crisis ...?

 

Bayview One was initially priced quite high for the market at the time, and I recall that Focus Equities hired Vancouver's Rennie Group to market the unsold condos, some of which were discounted around 50%.

[MarkoJ]

Marko, I definitely remember thinking that Bayview One wasn't the right 'product' for the market at the time, but I wonder if part of the challenge at Bayview was the timing, i.e. buyers here (and at the Falls) just opted to forfeit their deposits during the 200720088 financial crisis ...?

 

Bayview One was initially priced quite high for the market at the time, and I recall that Focus Equities hired Vancouver's Rennie Group to market the unsold condos, some of which were discounted around 50%.

 

Doesn't explain why the Promontory has re-sold so much higher per square foot since 2014-now. 

 

I lived at the Bayview for three years and whenever I list properties in the building or take buyers through the quality does not seem to be a huge decision factor. For example, I talk about solid core doors in the Bayview One video below but it just doesn't translate to buyers paying more...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=9xZNZLugq0Q

[davidN]

Doesn't explain why the Promontory has re-sold so much higher per square foot since 2014-now. 

 

I lived at the Bayview for three years and whenever I list properties in the building or take buyers through the quality does not seem to be a huge decision factor. For example, I talk about solid core doors in the Bayview One video below but it just doesn't translate to buyers paying more...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=9xZNZLugq0Q

I felt the same way about the Leeds program benefits. Loved the idea, felt I should be socially conscious, but dammed if I was going to pay through the nose for it!

Every one has their value points but everyone also has their price that they are willing to pay for those points.

[m3m]

I fully agree with Marko.  Bayview is one of the best values out there for condos, imo.  I wish the market could bear more buildings of that calibre but it's unlikely.  The skyrocketing construction costs likely would also be a factor. 

[RFS]

I know it's in Esquimalt, but I wonder how the Red Barn on Esquimalt Road is doing and if it's succeeding in drawing patronage from that community and Vic West?   One of my friends (an Esquimalt resident) has opted to continue patronizing Country Grocer as he felt that the Red Barn's prices were too high ...

 

I think they make a ton of money at lunch time and grocery sales are like a bonus