2247 replies to this topic

[Casual Kev]

Sometimes people need to apply proportionality when describing problems. Downtown is such a "cesspool" that you have developers literally surrounding the "vile" spots with high rise condos starting at $350K. Evidently there are issues, but as a downtown resident I don't think I ever avoid threading a particular spot, at worst I'd walk briskly by the Pandora McDonald's late at night. And I say this as a Vancouver transplant.

[RFS]

Sometimes people need to apply proportionality when describing problems. Downtown is such a "cesspool" that you have developers literally surrounding the "vile" spots with high rise condos starting at $350K. Evidently there are issues, but as a downtown resident I don't think I ever avoid threading a particular spot, at worst I'd walk briskly by the Pandora McDonald's late at night. And I say this as a Vancouver transplant.

Ok and if you had a toddler with you? You know. Low to the ground, curious, might sit or lie down anywhere

[Nparker]

...as a downtown resident I don't think I ever avoid threading a particular spot, at worst I'd walk briskly by the Pandora McDonald's late at night...

While downtown Victoria certainly has its issues - exacerbated by the current (and former) CoV council - there are few spots that I actively avoid. That being said, I have little reason to traverse the south side of the 900 block of Pandora and the north side of the 800 block of Johnson.

[tjv]

Without the CoV Central Saanich has no reason to exist.

I avoid CoV where ever I can which is pretty much almost everyday.  You some how think that the other municipalities need the CoV?  Why?

[G-Man]

By definition, suburban areas require an urban area. Without Victoria there would be some small resource bases towns in the areas with a total population of about 10k. The idea that somehow the areas around Victoria can survive without a city core is so bizarre that to even be discussing makes me feel a little crazy. 

[sdwright.vic]

^in other words, these suburban areas around victoria would be nothing more then rural towns without Victoria. (or whatever you want to call it that became the urban area if it wasn't Victoria).

Even if there wasn't a Victoria here, there most likely would of been a large urban area, that allowed all these suburbs to prosper.

Due to the politics of this region, the outcome most likely would not of been any different.

Edited by sdwright.vic, 28 January 2019 - 06:18 AM.

[RFS]

What a bizarre thought experiment. We must be really desperate for news on VV

[Mike K.]

By definition, suburban areas require an urban area. Without Victoria there would be some small resource bases towns in the areas with a total population of about 10k. The idea that somehow the areas around Victoria can survive without a city core is so bizarre that to even be discussing makes me feel a little crazy.

Don’t you think it’s the other way around or more of a symbiotic relationship? Cities consume what rural communities produce or provide. And it wasn’t that long ago when the majority of the population lived outside and away from urban centres, but growing populations began to depend on growing economic opportunities in cities, and on it went.

[Nparker]

Don’t you think it’s the other way around? Cities consume what rural communities produce or provide....

While that may have been historically true, the rural areas of the CRD certainly do not produce all that is needed to support even themselves, yet alone the population of the entire region. If that were the case, we'd hardly need a ferry system or even a road across the Malahat.

[Mike K.]

You can say the same about Langford, though. Where’s the carrot farm in Victoria feeding Langford residents?

Victoria needs Langford as much as Langford needs Victoria.

[On the Level]

The Westshore, Saanich,etc were created by Victoria 50 years in the making to keep the CoV quaint.  So to pretend that there isn't a dependency between them all is an oversimplification. 

 

Victoria residents have as much responsibility to provide transportation as does the Westshore and Central Saanich.  The problem is that the decisions 30 to 40 years ago to delay growth in the core have come home to roost.

 

If you live in the core, what do you think is going to happen when your voting base is extended to 350K?  Will your voice be heard?  Is anyone going to care about bike lanes or building a downtown pool?  If the Johnston Street Bridge was built after amalgamation, would you seriously believe it would be built with 3 vehicle lanes?

[rmpeers]

The Westshore, Saanich,etc were created by Victoria 50 years in the making to keep the CoV quaint. So to pretend that there isn't a dependency between them all is an oversimplification.

Victoria residents have as much responsibility to provide transportation as does the Westshore and Central Saanich. The problem is that the decisions 30 to 40 years ago to delay growth in the core have come home to roost.

If you live in the core, what do you think is going to happen when your voting base is extended to 350K? Will your voice be heard? Is anyone going to care about bike lanes or building a downtown pool? If the Johnston Street Bridge was built after amalgamation, would you seriously believe it would be built with 3 vehicle lanes?

I don't feel like my voice, as a voter and taxpayer, is heard at all currently. So I would be willing to give amalgamation a shot. However, I can't see most of the current CoV politicians encouraging it.

[Midnightly]

I don't feel like my voice, as a voter and taxpayer, is heard at all currently. So I would be willing to give amalgamation a shot. However, I can't see most of the current CoV politicians encouraging it.

 

 

and that is the reason why i voted yes on the study.. that i don't feel my voice is heard at all.. and that with amalgamation we might have a better middle ground of council vrs what we currently have

[Nparker]

Those were my reasons as well

[Mike K.]

The Westshore, Saanich,etc were created by Victoria 50 years in the making to keep the CoV quaint. So to pretend that there isn't a dependency between them all is an oversimplification.

The communities sprung up independently. Over time their interdependence grew, though.

As an aside, I have a buddy who lives in Chinatown but works in Langford. What do we make of that?

[Victoria Watcher]

is he or she Chinese Canadian?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 January 2019 - 06:54 AM.

[tjv]

I know my nieces who live in a major US city when they come here have said Victoria is like one giant suburb

 

You could argue that to a certain extent the entire CRD is a suburb of Vancouver in the sense that if you needed major heavy hit lawyers for a major lawsuit you won't find them in the CRD.  What if you wanted to attend an NHL game?  Go watch a major band live?  Want to do some shopping for some high end designer clothes?  Maybe you want to buy a Tesla.  I could go on forever

 

Don't get me wrong I love the CRD, I was born and raised here and its my home.  Just don't make it sound like the CoV offers everything for the other 12 municipalities and those municipalities need the CoV to survive because they don't.  I can't think of a single service in the CoV that isn't available in Saanich, etc

[Mike K.]

Victoria’s biggest fear is a government office in Langford as that will signal the beginning of a shift towards population-based employment.

By the mid-2020’s the City of Victoria’s population will be eclipsed by the Westshore. Come 2031 the Westshore is likely to be on par with Victoria, Oak Bay and Esquimalt, with Langford leading the charge in terms of actual population growth.

[Mike K.]

Here’s something that often goes unnoticed by most or at least is not talked about as much as it should be.

Politicians from the core can dictate, to some extent, the growth and aspirations of the suburbs via their appointed positions to the CRD. So Victoria politicians like Isitt can effect decisions like water line extensions or highway upgrades with no recourse by the local populations affected by their positions on those local issues. Should it really be up to Isitt whether a new subdivision on the Westshore has access to municipal water?

The CRD’s core-biased policies are the primary reason why Stew Young is not playing into the CRD’s transportation plans.

[Mike K.]

And adding to my post above regarding the Westshore’s population relative to that of Victoria’s, had View Royal not been plucked from the “Westshore” and added to the “core” by the CRD the Westshore population would have already eclipsed that of the City of Victoria by over 2,000 people as per the 2016 census.

Why did View Royal suddenly merge with the core instead of remaining on the Westshore?