1095 replies to this topic

[Casual Kev]

PPPdev, are the residential area stats from StatsCan or is that stuff you guys crunched yourselves? 

[PPPdev]

Both: population data is custom ordered StatCan dataset. The netted out residential land area is custom report derived from the City of Victoria open data program.

Fun stuff eh? The back of house dataset that runs the Talk to Aryze housing map is crazy. Neighbourhood level data connecting recent developments, transit data, CoV open data, school enrollments, 10 years of sales data, and of course every census layer relating to population change, affordability, built form, tenure etc etc etc

[dasmo]

That is a cool map. It does illustrate that the zoning is BS. Fairfield is not full of single family. There are character conversions, and suites throughout. Legal or otherwise. Sorry I couldn’t help myself....

[aastra]

When we talk about the need to transform Victoria's neighbourhoods as part of our noble mission to increase density, doesn't it seem increasingly absurd that we ignore the effectively undeveloped federal property around Work Point in Esquimalt? So what's the ultimate future for that area? It could easily be one of the best neighbourhoods in the city. Beautiful waterfront, some very accessible rocky hills that could serve as exceptional park/natural space, close proximity to downtown, great views of downtown and James Bay, etc. And yet it's pretty much a clean slate as it stands right now. In the year 2018. A clean slate right in the heart of the expensive city.

 

It's funny, (unused) government property is regarded as sacred in Victoria and the notion of selling off even a bit of it is super controversial... even if the property in question was once privately owned and purchased/expropriated by the government not very long ago:

 

 

Macaulay Point Has Been a Hot Topic For Some Time

Ever since the Municipality of Esquimalt was formed, the Work Point / Macaulay Point lands have generated a considerable amount of discussion on council.

 

The Macaulay Point Golf Course was originally constructed in 1893 by a detachment of the Royal Marine Artillery and was operated under the name of the United Services Club.

 

In 1922, the United Services Club relocated and changed their name to Uplands Golf Course. Around that time the Macaulay Golf Club was established.

 

In the late twenties or early thirties, Esquimalt acquired the lands due to the instability of the Golf Club to pay the taxes. In 1934 the lands were finally transferred to the municipality.

 

In October of 1934, the municipality leased the land back to the golf club for a five year period at a rate $1,000 per year.

 

In 1939 the Federal Government took this property and the club became dormant until 1943, when members called a meeting and decided to go into voluntary liquidation.

 

Information indicates that any records of the golf club were lost when the club house of the Victoria Golf Club burned down. These lands and other adjacent lands were purchased by the Federal Government in September 1942 for $80,533.33.

 

At the same time, Work Point / Macaulay Point lands were acquired by the Federal Government through expropriation during World War II in 1942.

http://workpoint.opcmh.ca/1995.php

 

 

 

GOLF HILL

The highest point of land within Work Point Barracks is the Golf Hill summit at 100 feet above mean sea level.

The Golf Hill height afforded a commanding advantage over the entrance to Victoria Harbour for defensive purposes during the Second World War and accordingly an artillery battery was built there commencing in 1938.

Immediately to the north and west towards Bewdley Avenue were the 7th T box, the 4th T box and the 3rd green of the 1894 United Services Golf Club (Macaulay Point Golf Club) where remnants of those level areas remain evident today.

The Golf Hill Battery of the Second World War era remains secure within a chain link fence with the entrance gate locked at the end of Peek Street

http://workpoint.opcmh.ca/2018.php

 

You could create an absolute gem of a neighbourhod around there to comfortably house a few thousand people, easily. Without building even a single highrise, I mean. A new neighbourhood from scratch, in the heart of the city. 98% of Victorians have never set foot on the property.* Much of it is still fenced and off-limits to the public.

 

*damned statistics

Edited by aastra, 18 October 2018 - 12:32 PM.

[RFS]

When we talk about the need to transform Victoria's neighbourhoods as part of our noble mission to increase density, doesn't it seem increasingly absurd that we ignore the effectively undeveloped federal property around Work Point in Esquimalt? So what's the ultimate future for that area? It could easily be one of the best neighbourhoods in the city. Beautiful waterfront, some very accessible rocky hills that could serve as exceptional park/natural space, close proximity to downtown, great views of downtown and James Bay, etc. And yet it's pretty much a clean slate as it stands right now. In the year 2018. A clean slate right in the heart of the expensive city.

It's funny, (unused) government property is regarded as sacred in Victoria and the notion of selling off even a bit of it is super controversial... even if the property in question was once privately owned and purchased/expropriated by the government not very long ago:




You could create an absolute gem of a neighbourhod around there to comfortably house a few thousand people, easily. Without building even a single highrise, I mean. A new neighbourhood from scratch, in the heart of the city. 98% of Victorians have never set foot on the property.* Much of it is still fenced and off-limits to the public.

*damned statistics

Yeah but what can you do? The feds own that land and therefore it is at their mercy

[Nparker]

When we talk about the need to transform Victoria's neighbourhoods as part of our noble mission to increase density, doesn't it seem increasingly absurd that we ignore the effectively undeveloped federal property around Work Point in Esquimalt?...

I'd support this 100% if Work Point was actually a neighbourhood in the CoV.

Amalgamation now.

[aastra]

 

Yeah but what can you do? The feds own that land...

 

Are not we the feds? Are not the feds us? We're talking about the same feds that are doing noble and wonderful work on behalf of people & communities re: drug legalization, right? The same feds that are selling off surplus DND land in other parts of Canada?

 

(Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that housing affordability & efficient land use should be anywhere near as high on the priority list as marijuana legalization. Of course not. You need to address the most critically important things first. But it would be nice if housing affordability was somewhere on the radar.)

Edited by aastra, 18 October 2018 - 12:58 PM.

[aastra]

 

I'd support this 100% if Work Point was actually a neighbourhood in the CoV.

 

But what does this have to do with anything? City neighbourhoods are city neighbourhoods, whether they're in Victoria or Esquimalt. Lines on maps are imaginary. Are we thinking a few thousand new homes in a choice location in Esquimalt would have no effect on real estate in Victoria proper?

[aastra]

For new members, this is where aastra normally observes how Victoria can flip from a tiny town to a gigantic megalopolis (and back again) in an instant, depending on how people want to spin an issue.

[Jackerbie]

Esquimalt has the following to say in the OCP

 

 

8.2.2 Federal Land: CFB Esquimalt – Work Point

 

OBJECTIVE: To encourage future owners of any divested federal lands in the Work Point area to appropriately integrate new developments into adjacent neighbourhoods in a manner that is compatible with nearby land uses.

 

Policy If divested by the Federal Government, it is envisaged that parts of the CFB Esquimalt - Work Point area could be redeveloped to a mix of townhouse and medium density residential developments surrounded by greenspace.

 

Policy Continuous public waterfront access linking Macaulay Point Park with the West Bay Walkway and downtown Victoria will be a key planning principle in any future concept plan.

 

The OCP is here, Work Point in on pages 39-40: https://www.esquimal...plan_2018_0.pdf

[RFS]

Are not we the feds? Are not the feds us? We're talking about the same feds that are doing noble and wonderful work on behalf of people & communities re: drug legalization, right? The same feds that are selling off surplus DND land in other parts of Canada?

Sure but until they express any interest in selling, it might as well not exist

[aastra]

Okay, so we're saying there's absolutely no way to facilitate the process and make something happen sooner rather than later. The decades-long housing crisis is not such a crisis after all (until five minutes from now, when it will resume being a horrifying crisis).

Edited by aastra, 18 October 2018 - 01:07 PM.

[Bingo]

For new members, this is where aastra normally observes how Victoria can flip from a tiny town to a gigantic megalopolis (and back again) in an instant, depending on how people want to spin an issue.

 

New members will probably notice that aastra sometime talks to himself, usually within minutes but if you pay attention you will see that aastra really knows his stuff.

[Bingo]

Buy the way aastra will sometimes bet a donut on an outcome.

[PPPdev]

Canada Lands Company has developed tons of old military bases and they do a pretty damn good job of it too.

[aastra]

Any examples for us to make a fuss about?

 

Like this?

http://dailyhive.com...proved-may-2018

Edited by aastra, 18 October 2018 - 02:23 PM.

[aastra]

 

aastra will sometimes bet a donut on an outcome.

 

Most lurkers already know that. I'd bet a Humboldt Valley unicorn on it.

[nerka]

Esquimalt has the following to say in the OCP

 

 

The OCP is here, Work Point in on pages 39-40: https://www.esquimal...plan_2018_0.pdf

Isn't it more likely that lands would be handed over to local First Nations rather than to Esquimalt?  I guess could be both. Ownership to the FNs but jurisdictionally within Esquimalt.

[RFS]

Isn't it more likely that lands would be handed over to local First Nations rather than to Esquimalt? I guess could be both. Ownership to the FNs but jurisdictionally within Esquimalt.

That would be very unfortunate as far as development and land use is concerned

[aastra]

Seems like First Nations are involved with some of the various other Canada Lands Company projects that PPPdev mentioned. Methinks there's no necessary reason why that should be a negative.

 

 

Canada Lands Company and the three First Nations will be 50-50 owners of three properties, including the 21-hectare Jericho Lands in Vancouver’s exclusive West Point Grey neighbourhood.

from Vancouver Sun...

Edited by aastra, 18 October 2018 - 02:38 PM.