26 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

Interesting post up on The Daily Score: [url=http://www.sightline.org/daily_score/archive/2007/07/20/sticker-shocker:b18a7]Sticker Shocker[/url:b18a7], posted by Clark Williams-Derry...


He writes:

Everyone knows that cars are expensive, right? Still, it may come as a surprise to find out just how much money we spend getting from place to place.

The cost of the car itself -- typically the second biggest purchase many families make in their lives -- is just the start. When you start adding in the cost of gasoline, and car insurance, and maintenance and repairs, and parking, and taxes to build new roads and maintain old ones, and license fees, and the medical costs of traffic accidents...boy, I could go on all day...Well, suffice it to say, the zeroes start adding up.

A while back I asked the estimable Yoram Bauman to wade through consumer spending figures to try to figure out how much we actually spend on cars in a year. Cutting to the chase...

In the Northwest states--Washington, Oregon, and Idaho--about 19 percent of all consumer spending goes towards transportation. A bit of that pays for planes, trains, and buses, but a whopping 95 percent pays for cars and related expenses.

Think of it this way. Open up your wallet, or check your bank balance, or look at your last paycheck. If you're close to average, about one-fifth of all the money you see will go to pay for your car.

Or think of it this way -- maybe you had a rough commute this morning, and spent 20 minutes in traffic. That's frustrating. But consider this: for the first hour and a half you spend at work, you're busy working to pay for your car. Which means that you're spending more time "stuck in traffic" at the office than on the road.

If anything, Yoram's estimates are conservative. They don't include the cost of building your garage, if you have one; nor do they cover the cost of parking spaces that businesses build for your convenience. (Those costs show up in your mortgage and shopping bills.) Yoram's figures also don't include the cost of any taxes that are paid to secure your fuel supply; those mostly show up as taxes on income or capital gains. And they certainly don't cover the external costs of climate change; of air, water, and noise pollution; or of the pain and suffering caused by car accidents.

The really interesting thing to me about all this, though, is the comparison with British Columbia. BC residents spend only about 14 percent of their income on transportation, including about 12 percent that's spent on cars. (In terms of daily work time, BC residents spend about a half-hour less each day "stuck in traffic," paying for cars, gas, and the like.)

There's no one reason for BC's advantage. Part of it is that cars in Canada have historically cost more than in the US (exchange rates, and all that) -- which means that people buy fewer of them. In the Northwest US, there are more cars than drivers.

But at least some part of the explanation is that BC cities (and Canadian cities generally) are laid out so that people can get by without driving so much. And that means that people don't need to spend so much to get around -- so even though cars and gas are more expensive, they BC residents spend less on them, person for person, than we do.

Well, if we have that advantage, let's make sure we don't fritter it away in the coming years...

[gumgum]

I think we're improving in the cores. We're going backwards in the outskirts.

[Phil McAvity]

I remember years ago the Victoria Cycling Coalition coming up with a figure of around $7,000/year to own and operate a car. Even though they aren't the most unbiased source, the number sounded about right. I can think of many better ways to spend that money, especially since bicycling isn't that much slower, is way cheaper and is healthier.

[Holden West]

^I think they got that number from the Canadian Automobile Assn. That number must be a lot higher considering the cost of gas and insurance today.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I have a hard time believing the stats, or rather: the conclusion suggested by the title, in [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=25d642a0-2b35-462f-80e8-e7c18deb951f&k=43735:49044]Downtown parking here is pricier than in bigger cities[/url:49044], by Darron Kloster (in today's T-C).

Or perhaps it's another case of the paper giving an article a headline title that has almost nothing to do with the article's content? Kloster's article says that Victorians pay an average of $280 per month for reserved spots, but that this puts them in the middle of 10 major Canadian cities.

He also points out that:

Midtown parking in New York is the most expensive by far at $669 Cdn a month.

(...snip...)

On a global scale, even New York looks affordable. Topping the charts is London, where a month of parking costs $1,272 Cdn.

You have to wonder who came up with the title for Kloster's article, and why...

For more perspective on the high cost of parking your car, take a look at [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/us/12parking.html?ex=1341892800&en=259ed9e547280ce4&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss:49044]For Parking Space, the Price Is Right at $225,000[/url:49044] by Vivian S. Toy (New York Times, 7/12/07).



The caption says:
Cynthia Habberstad, with her children, Andrew, Brielle and Brooke, said she regretted not buying a parking spot for $165,000 with the apartment she bought on West 28th Street. The spaces are now all taken.

In Houston, $225,000 will buy a three-bedroom house with a game room, den, in-ground pool and hot tub.

In Manhattan, it will buy a parking space. No windows, no view. No walls.

(...snip...)

Spaces are in such demand that there are waiting lists of buyers. Eight people are hoping for the chance to buy one of five private parking spaces for $225,000 in the basement of 246 West 17th Street, a 34-unit condo development scheduled for completion next January. The developer, meanwhile, is seeking city approval to add four more spots.

[VicHockeyFan]

That figure is wacky. There must be less than 100 spots in victoria that cost $280/mo.

At the old Bay parkade, the price is about $110. On Tyee Rd., a 10 minute walk to most of downtown, it's free.

[Holden West]

City of Victoria parkade rates run from $110 to $200 a month.

According to the recently release parking report, monthly rates are "slightly below the monthly rates charged in larger centres, and significantly above those in Kelowna and Kamloops."

The report says reserved spaces in Robbins' lots range from $120 to $210 a month. That's still way below what the Colliers report claims, even taking into account the supposed $55 increase since 2005.

The most expensive public parking by far is the Robbins Broughton parkade, where a reserved space is $300 a month. But nothing else in the city even comes close! There are two Robbins lots that charge $210 and all the other lots are $120 to $200. Again--this is for reserved--random is even cheaper. City parkades are cheaper still.

$280 is average?! So where are these ultra-luxury, fur-lined, deluxe "average" parking spaces?

I call bullshit.

[VicHockeyFan]

I call bullshit.

So do I. But I guess the article only talks of reserved space at the $280 rate.

Using the parkade M-F all month (22 days) using the daily rate is only $264/mo. Govt. workers with flex days probably use them 20 days or less, not counting less use for stat. holidays, and their own personal vacations.

[Holden West]

I'm no math whiz, but I think the high cost of the Broughton parkade is skewing the average reserved monthly rate.

I think that the MEDIAN rate for reserved parking in a Robbins lot is somewhere around $200.

The median rate at City-owned parkades for a reserved space is $170.

[Holden West]

This is how it must work:

Robbins reserved parking (now includes prostitute and complementary beverage):

Old Bay Parkade: reg: $110 or $130 includes kissing (no tongue); Pepsi or Aquafina.

Harbour Centre: reg: $200 or $150 includes groping (no finger); beer (local) or highball (well).

Broughton St. Parkade: reg: $300 or $410 includes lapdance (pants off), beer (import) or highball (premium) and pretzels.

[Holden West]

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[Caramia]

I think the Victoria conference centre has the most expensive parking.

[Baro]

Wow I'd have to get a 2nd job just to afford that sort of transport budget. Luckily for me my only fuel costs are food and drink and my work commute is a 6.5 min walk.

[Baro]

Factoring in the money you spend on the car per year, is the larger house you managed to get in the westshore area still worth it?

[Baro]

Well as long as you know the true costs of your lifestyle that's cool. A lot of people move way out there just because you can get a bigger house, then ***** non-stop about gas prices and traffic as if the two didn't directly relate to their lifestyle choices.

And good on you riding your bike! I'd probably be way too lazy haha.

[Zimquats]

See, I was the opposite. I move from town to town a lot for work, so usually just end up renting. Well, I wanted a brand new high end place, and saw I could get that at Bear Mountain for about $500 less than downtown, so I figured what the hell...

Seems that $500 savings is eaten up pretty quick with a $600/ month gas bill and $250 on cabs (ya, I occasionally partake in a few BEvERages downtown).

Sad thing is, it's not like it would have taken that much thought on my part to figure it out before I did it, so I really can't complain haha.