252 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

I still think that the Olympics will have little effect of Victoria. I mean January is not the best time to vist anywhere in Canada and so if you are coming it will be to go skiing not vist here. We may get some spotlight which marginally boosts the summer season.

[UrbanRail]

If Lowe thinks Belleville terminal is an embarassement, Ogden Pt Cruise Ship terminal is even worse.

[Mike K.]

I still think that the Olympics will have little effect of Victoria. I mean January is not the best time to vist anywhere in Canada and so if you are coming it will be to go skiing not vist here. We may get some spotlight which marginally boosts the summer season.

Although the impact won't be as strong as it will be in Vancouver, the opportunity to bring tourists here is certainly there and if there is an opportunity the market will tap it.

Furthermore Victoria's year-round tourism is largely residual tourism from Vancouver and Seattle so an increase in Vancouver's tourism at any time of year will undoubtedly bring an increase to Victoria's tourism.

If Lowe thinks Belleville terminal is an embarassement, Ogden Pt Cruise Ship terminal is even worse.

I thought it's dubbed as the finest cruise ship facility on the west coast!?

[Nparker]

I thought it's dubbed as the finest cruise ship facility on the west coast!?

Yes, the west coast of James Bay.

[Mike K.]

Er...dare I revive this topic?

I haven't seen so little activity on an issue since Saanich received funding for a homeless shelter.

[amor de cosmos]

Downtown ferry terminal gets $700,000 upgrade
Black Ball Ferry Line and Provincial Capital Commission to share cost
By RICHARD WATTS, Times Colonist
February 6, 2009

Traffic flow and customs should become a little smoother for passengers boarding the MV Coho after the completion of $700,000 in upgrades and renovations.

The Black Ball Ferry Line has embarked on a $500,000 renovation of the terminal on Belleville Street. Meanwhile, the Provincial Capital Commission, which owns the site and leases the terminal to Black Ball, is now spending nearly $200,000 to spruce up the largely wooden dock.

[...]

http://www.timescolo...2893/story.html

[Ms. B. Havin]

"There is a larger interest to ponder," said Fortin.

Politicians should lose the passive voice, it makes them look unbearably stupid.

"There is"? Where? A "larger interest"? Larger than what? More interesting than what? What interest, exactly? And "to ponder"? Ponder, ponder, ponder... City Hall as Elsinore, with Hamlet in charge?

Please, for the love of god, Mr. Mayor, do you think we could move past the passive voice platitudes?

[spanky123]

Didn't Lowe and his developer buddies tell us in 2007 that unless we redeveloped and spent millions then US Customs was going to shut down as the area didn't meet their standards?

[aastra]

Who are Lowe's developer buddies?

[Rob Randall]

Spanky is alluding to the members of the Mayor's Task Force:

Task Force:

Terry Farmer of Farmer Construction (Chair)
developer Mohni Jawl
Irish Times Pub owner Matt MacNeil
Devon Properties president Rob Hunter.
WCG international vice-president Robin Adair
Victoria Clipper president Darrell Bryan
CitySpaces consultant Deane Strongitharm
Starr McMichael, president of Starboard Enterprises
consultant Eric Donald
Budget Rent-A-Car owner Judy Scott
Greater Victoria Harbour Authority chair Don Prittie
Tim Van Alstine, president, James Bay Neighbourhood Environment Association
Plus the chiefs of the Esquimalt and Songhees First Nations

Other people made appearances, including

Architects Paul Merrick, Sid Chow and Franc D'Ambrosio
Reps from all the transportation entities including BC Ferries
US Homeland Security
Transport Canada and the Border Services Agency

Didn't Lowe and his developer buddies tell us in 2007 that unless we redeveloped and spent millions then US Customs was going to shut down as the area didn't meet their standards?

Homeland Security said the present conditions were unacceptable.

[VicHockeyFan]

Can someone that travels a lot by Clipper/Coho/floatplane into the US tell me if we have Canadian Customs/Immigration agents at all the US terminals, like they have at all ours?

[G-Man]

^ no we don't.

[Rob Randall]

I'll repost these concepts from the original Task Force report because the switchover to the new forum broke the links.

Please note:

These sketches are just concept drawings to illustrate the possibilities that could occur on the site. They do not represent any existing proposal.

It is up to the development community to initiate a detailed proposal of their own.

Overview: note the new Hilton hotel on Belleville and its north/south orientation (vs. the east/west of the current motel)



Harbour view. Note the hotel at the extreme west side of the site (approx 12 storeys)



Belleville looking west. Note the CP building at right. The Wax Museum would be relocated in the new commercial building near the new terminal:



Belleville looking east:



Harbour side plaza. The lower walkway is for screened passengers, separated from the public by some sort of glass wall:

[amor de cosmos]

Push still on for new Belleville Terminal

VICTORIA - There is work underway outside the Coho Ferry terminal on Belleville Street in Victoria. But the work, to shore up some docks and beautify the area, is only cosmetic. What is not happening is construction of a new Belleville Tourist Terminal. That has been the dream of tourism operators, and city officials, for decades. But the latest provincial budget had no funding earmarked for such a project. However, the Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce, Tourism Victoria, and the City of Victoria say they will continue to push the provincial government to free up money for a new terminal. And the provincial opposition points to the multi-millions of dollars being spent on the Lower Mainland for projects there, while the Capital City still has an eyesore for an entranceway.

http://www.atv.ca/vi...news_66957.aspx

[Holden West]

Murray Langdon Comment

C-FAX 1070
Sep 1, 2009

Another budget is upon us and I have a sinking feeling that there will be one item left off the agenda once again: the Belleville Terminal.

Since the BC Liberals came in to power in 2001, it has surfaced, disappeared, res-surfaced and vanished . . . with some fanfare but little in the way of explanation. There was a “blue ribbon panel” which came up with some practical, albeit controversial, recommendations. At least we were talking about doing something . . .

[...]

[VicHockeyFan]

Outlook 2010 article on the terminal.

[Holden West]

"That includes not only the waterfront but the lands surrounding the legislature and the museum and parts of the Inner Harbour itself," said Victoria Mayor Dean Fortin. "There's great interest in developing and pulling together a strong vision, one that is sustainable and one that has support, and the terminal redevelopment is a key part of that."

That's fine to want to master-plan the entire district but the risk is that the task is so daunting nothing will ever get off the ground.

The area is really bookended by the huts and parking lots at the back of the Leg and the Admiral's Inn proposal (pyramid) toward Laurel Point. You could even extend it to include the stillborn Crystal Court plan just past the RBCM.

A vast area with little political will to do anything but watch it sit.

[G-Man]

^ Good Point. Though perhaps they would like have a solution that will never be used. Not kidding either.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I thought Ryan Burles's comment made a lot of sense:

Burles said while their facility is adequate at the moment, it would make more sense to establish a multi-use terminal -- the like of which has been talked about for years -- that would add some form of cultural or tourism attraction.

"To me this is a common sense thing. This does need to happen at some point. We need to create a seamless connection and make this professional and do justice to this harbour and this capital," he said. (source)

He's expressing a vision for the terminal ("multi-use," adding a "cultural or tourism attraction"), and talks about how to do it in words that let me "see" something of what he has in mind ("seamless connection," "professional," "do justice to this harbour and this capital").

On the other hand, the quote representing the city is fluffy, imprecise, and makes me wonder what exactly they (the city) think they're going to do:

From the city's perspective, there's a need to look at the terminal within the context of redeveloping the entire legislative precinct.

"That includes not only the waterfront but the lands surrounding the legislature and the museum and parts of the Inner Harbour itself," said Victoria Mayor Dean Fortin. "There's great interest in developing and pulling together a strong vision, one that is sustainable and one that has support, and the terminal redevelopment is a key part of that." (source)

Just what does that mean? That quote is like a fog, it has no shape. Why can't we start with just the Belleville Terminal, with a vision around that (and for god's sake, start with people like Burles and Darrell Bryan of the Clipper, people who actually have an intimate working knowledge of the thing), and then get community buy-in around revamping it? Why should it be in suspended animation until Judgment Day when all the pieces fall into place to "redevelop the entire legislative precinct"?

I don't think I'm particularly stupid, but I can't even begin to understand what "redeveloping the entire legislative district" means in real-life terms. It's meaningless to me (and probably 99% of the population who think the precinct is "adequate at the moment" (to re-quote Burles). Forget about "redeveloping the entire legislative district" and fix on one small piece that most people actually agree needs work instead!

I don't understand the way this city's "appetite" for projects works. Sometimes it's superficial and "grazing," other times it rivals Pantagruel's and is completely over the top. Sometimes we're like ball bugs, other times we might be giants.

At any rate, most of the time we're just plain hosed.

And gag me with the sustainability angle already. I've been sustainable (recycling, reusing, reducing) for decades, I care deeply about waste ("waste not want not" is a byword around here). I know from sustainability and I've put my money where my mouth is whenever I can afford it. I get it, ok?

But I'm just sayin': there is going to be a huge backlash against all this sustainability crutch-speak, where on every single issue "sustainability" is thrown in as a bone (or a muzzle, sort of like your priest reading Leviticus to you). Anyway, that's sort of off-topic, but whatever...

[aastra]

There's great interest in developing and pulling together a strong vision, one that is sustainable and one that has support...

If we can just address every possible gripe that anyone might have about any aspect of how these 3+ blocks could or should be developed, then we'll have a perfect plan by which to proceed.