1311 replies to this topic

[Baro]

Nope, not an amenity if it has any actual use. Has to be free-standing art free and seperate of any evil buildings in an open hard-surfaced plaza to be an amenity. It also has to be fugly and by a chosen-by-committee local artist.

[yodsaker]

Folks in the Uplands and Broadmead would likely take up arms rather than relinquish their setbacks and lawns and low-density SFH lifestyle.

And why would they?
That's what they wanted and that's what they were willing to pay for.

[jklymak]

^ Unfortunately the rest of us pay for it too by building them lots of infrastructure and putting up with their constantly driving everywhere.

Make all roads (highways and municipal) paid for by the gas tax and none from general revenue, and add a premium for the environmental impact, and you'll see a pretty radical acceptance of transit.

[yodsaker]

^ Unfortunately the rest of us pay for it too by building them lots of infrastructure and putting up with their constantly driving everywhere.

They pay high property taxes, too. Infrastructure isn't just for "them", its for all of us. Municipalities and the province work out how much they pay. BTW, rich, poor and middle class all drive a lot. Check out mall parking lts - not only Benzes and Bimmers, plenty of beaters, too. Its the North American way in case you hadn't noticed.
Why is it Canadians always think someone, somewhere is getting something more for nothing? So petty.

[jklymak]

Its the North American way in case you hadn't noticed.

Yes, I had noticed. However, I do not feel that it is the right way or that it is inevitable, and I think we should discourage it as much as possible, amongst rich and poor alike.

Why is it Canadians always think someone, somewhere is getting something more for nothing? So petty.

I do think that subsidizing roads and their expansion from general revenue has encouraged the growth of sprawling suburbs. What more, that subsidy has led to a very environmentally damaging way that everyone gets around. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but I don't see how it is either a "Canadian" or "petty" argument.

Detractors of rapid rail and commuter rail say it won't pay its own way. Well, I make the same claim of the road system: when users pay the full cost of their system then folks in Broadmead and Uplands will indeed be paying for the privilege of driving everywhere.

[Bernard]

All transit will get a subsidy, the issue is what is the best option for transit. The $500 000 000 capital cost to build a 15km LRT out to Langford will buy a lot of buses. The cost of operating an LRT is also expensive unless you have a lot of riders, I do not see the source for the riders for an LRT here.

Charging a fuel tax that is high enough to cover the costs for roads is a good idea and I would encourage it, though the cost of roads and highway operations is not nearly as much as most people think. Here is an interesting factoid, BC's net spending on highway operations versus transit operations and ferries are roughly equal. For about 15-20 cents a litre we can cover all of the highway and road operational costs each year. For 18 cents a litre we can afford to spend a billion a year on highway capital projects, which is roughly what all of the spending on road based capital projects is per year.

Total tax take needed to raise the money for all of the road costs in BC is about 33 to 38 cents per litre. We currently pay 17.8 to 22.8 cents per litre in provincial taxes and a total of 32 to 37 cents in total taxes per litre of gas we buy.

What this means is that we are more or less paying as much in taxes on gas in BC as it costs to pay for the road infrastructure maintenance and capital costs. Yes, about 14.2 cents per litre currently goes to the federal government.

So be careful in claiming that there is a subsidy for roads and highways, the case is not really there.

[jklymak]

Thanks, where did you get your figures? I'm not challenging them, but would love to see the references.

500 million sounds pretty expensive for LRT to Langford. Thats 33 million/km. Considering much of the right of way already exists, I'm curious why you think it would cost that much. My quick research on wikipedia indicates $30 million/mile is reasonable.

[Bernard]

Costs on average for US LRTs over the last decade have been about $30 million per km - factor in the US to CDN conversion and you are at roughly $500 000 000. I had the link for the data but no on me, but is based on some US academic studies of capital projects costs for rail transit. Construction estimates were at about $20 million per KM average.

The current right of way is not a good one for an LRT from the westshore to downtown, it needs major changes and additions to the right of way to make it work.

The data comes from BC Min of Finance - the budget documents each year have the full details of revenues and expenditures. I do not have a single page to direct you to.

[UrbanRail]

This study is to take 2 years to complete, with construction of the preferred method to start sometime in 2011.

It is to look at commuter rail (E&N), tram, LRT, BRT and harbour ferry modes, as well as corridors in the region. It will also look at how transportation ties into urban development. A committee has been put together. This committee has members that represent a whole range of groups and interests, etc, this includes the ICF.

Here is committee list.

http://www.busonline...Feb_10_2009.pdf

Here is a link to the new website.

http://www.bctransit...rrt/default.cfm

Anyway please look at this and post your comments.

Cheers

Aaron

[G-Man]

They would already be building the BRT if it hadn't been for all the ninnies.

The Core is going to get screwed on the new plan.

[UrbanRail]

My vision for rapid transit from my Flickr profile

[UrbanRail]

Here are the first two open houses.

Tuesday, March 31, 2009
4:00 pm to 8:00 pm
Ramada Inn, 123 Gorge Road East

Wednesday, April 1, 2009
4:00 pm to 8:00 pm
Four Points Victoria Gateway, 829 McCallum Road

[UrbanRail]

Heres an interesting article.

BC Transit focuses on corridor to West Shore

By Edward Hill - Goldstream News Gazette

Published: April 09, 2009 9:00 AM
Updated: April 09, 2009 9:07 AM



Wheels are in motion at BC Transit to radically overhaul travel within Greater Victoria with a public rapid transit system.

What that system would look like remains undefined — be it street cars, buses or light rail, or a mix of all — but BC Transit wants to establish dedicated right-of-ways between the West Shore and Victoria.

“The key to this is connecting the West Shore and Victoria,” said Manuel Achadinha, BC Transit president and CEO. “We are trying to look at an exclusive, dedicated right-of-way that creates an advantage for transit over single occupancy vehicles.”

BC Transit held two public open houses last week to outline where people live, how they move through the region and how geography and existing corridors influence transit planning — such as the Galloping Goose trail, the E&N railway and the Trans-Canada Highway.

In the past, BC Transit had little in the way of regional planning, case in point was the Douglas Street busway concept. That was hotly opposed by downtown businesses.

“Our biggest weakness is there’s been no regional study,” he said. “Whatever we do has to be an integrated network of biking, walking and transit. We are trying to get people from A to B without using vehicles.”

Over the long term, regional rapid transit will connect the major population centres throughout Greater Victoria, he said, but the first link in the chain is the West Shore-“urban core” corridor.

The West Shore has the greatest growing demand for transit in the CRD. Its projected population is 95,000 by 2026 or 24 per cent of people in the Capital Region, up from 17 per cent now.

About 63 per cent of people who live on the West Shore work in the urban core, with virtually all cramming onto the Trans-Canada Highway with up-Island commuters or through View Royal on Island Highway.

“It’s about supply and demand. The (TCH) can’t sustain the demand,” Achadinha said. “We need a solution for the West Shore.”

Transit hubs have the potential to emerge at the “pinch-point” in View Royal, where the TCH, Island Highway, Galloping Goose trail and E&N rail line intersect, and at Uptown, where traffic branches to the West Shore or the Saanich Peninsula. Saanich in particular is expected to be a significant hub.

“Coming in from the West Shore or the airport or ferries you have to pass (Uptown),” he said. “Downtown is like a cul-de-sac ... Saanich is right in the middle.”

At the open house in Langford, Colwood Coun. Judith Cullington said whichever form rapid transit takes, it needs to be frequent, affordable and convenient to entice people to leave their cars at home.

“Congestion can be your friend,” Cullington said. “You want to make it slow for cars to make it relatively fast for bikes or the bus.”

“We’ve got to find a way to make it faster and more reliable than being on the road,” added Malahat-Juan de Fuca MLA John Horgan at the open house.

Achadinha said BC Transit’s rapid transit project will integrate the upcoming Ministry of Transportation study of the E&N railway corridor for commuter and freight rail. BC Transit plans to outline potential rapid transit modes and technologies at open houses this summer. By September it wants to have a clear business plan to present to senior governments.

Ultimately, BC Transit hopes to get a piece of $1.2 billion in the Transit Plan fund directed to rapid transit in cities other than Greater Vancouver.

Ashok Bhatti, the Ministry of Transportation regional manager of transit, said the ministry is eager to invest funding into Greater Victoria transit, but is waiting for a solid plan.

“We are looking for a home for that money,” he said. “We just have to see where it makes sense for us to invest.”

See www.bctransit.com/vrrt to learn more about the Victoria Regional Rapid Transit project.

For other information, see Islandtransformations.org, a commuter rail advocate, for a video presentation on commuter rail in the CRD.

[phx]

“Congestion can be your friend,” Cullington said. “You want to make it slow for cars to make it relatively fast for bikes or the bus.”

Great, let's just cripple the roads instead of solving problems.

[LJ]

Yeah the busses won't be any faster than now but they will appear to be!

Great strategy!

[UrbanRail]

Yeah the busses won't be any faster than now but they will appear to be!

Great strategy!

I think there is a little more than to just make the buses appear to go faster. Separate rapid transit right of ways are being considered with rail being the largest component.

[Lover Fighter]

Saw an ad in the TC today advertising rapid transit open houses over the next couple weeks. I'll probably attend the Jun 29th one. The dates can be found here:

http://www.bctransit.com/vrrt/news.cfm

[endayliner]

Good to see that something may happen regarding rapid transit in Victoria. How many studies have been done over the years?

[mat]

Good to see that something may happen regarding rapid transit in Victoria. How many studies have been done over the years?

Transit as a complete issue, or focused to rail/rapid? There have been so many local and regional transit studies consultants have bought homes in Uplands.

On the reality building board there is nothing on the table for building a rapid transit system for the CRD. The EN line revamp is a welcome start.

[VicDuck]

We need less studies and more action.